DVD-Audio Hybrid format?

High Fidelity Review
DVD-Audio News Story:HE 2003: Hybrid DVD-A Disc Dropped For Another Approach
Ê HE 2003: Dolby Labs hosted a DVD-A Industry Update at the Screening Room on the third floor of their San Francisco facility during HE 2003. The evening proved to be quite interesting as we heard the latest news about the Hybrid DVD-A disc project, a new DVD-A Marketing effort, Dolby's future plans as well as news from key record labels that are releasing DVD-A discs.

The Dolby event was attended by a large number of reporters in the audio and home theater press that were covering the Home Entertainment 2003 show in San Francisco. To make it a newsworthy event, Dolby invited the key DVD-A record labels as well as some of the DVD-A format illuminaries such as Meridian's Bob Stuart to the event. Here are some of the highlights from the Dolby DVD-A event at HE 2003.

Hybrid DVD-A Disc Dropped For Another Approach
The big news at the DVD-A event was confirmation by Dolby's John Kellogg that "a Hybrid DVD-A disc with a CD layer won't happen." Kellogg then added "but there is another" and its announcement by the DVD-A group is "imminent".

Readers of High Fidelity Review will recall that Warner Music Group had asked the DVD Forum to consider developing a Hybrid DVD-A disc late last year to address the need for CD compatibility in the DVD-A format. The DVD Forum agreed that this would be an attractive addition to the DVD-A format. The concept was to develop a Hybrid DVD-A disc that would have both DVD-A and Stereo CD layers, much as you find on a Hybrid Layer Stereo or Hybrid Layer Multichannel/Stereo SACD today.

While Kellogg did not provide details on what the DVD-A group was working on in this area, speculation at the DVD-A press event centered around some form of DVD-A "flipper disc". With a flipper disc, one side would have DVD-A information and when the disc was flipped over, Stereo CD information would be on the other side. We should know more soon when the DVD-A group announcement on this new development is made. We'll certainly bring you those details at that time, however...

High Fidelity Review sources have suggested that the technology will be DVD Plus Ð http://www.dvdplusinc.com/ Ð and that the dual-sided disc will be marketed as the ÒDual DiscÓ Ð http://www.dualdisc.com/ Ð an active domain name owned by Warner Strategic Marketing.

 

It's coincidental that you should post this as just a couple of days ago I was thinking of posting a message asking what ever happened to the supposed DVD-A hybrids. I decided against the post for fear that it may spiral out of control into yet another DVD-A Vs. SACD vs. multichannel Vs. Stereo Vs. DSD Vs. PCM thread. But now that the cat is out of the bag, what is the deal with the DVD-A folks?

 

This is old news. Expect to see the flipper version of the hybrid to be launched in the next few monts.

 

DVD-A is going to stay a niche market without a redbook cd layer. I think the redbook layer was a big reason for people buying high profile SACD releases (Pink Floyd & The Rolling Stones).

 

Flipsville, daddy-o.

 

I don't want to start an argument (I play SACDs), but the redbook layer was the only reason most of those discs sold - especially since the Stones discs were "stealth" marketed.

 

I think that DVD-A should stay DVD, however I would guess that mass appeal will require some sort of CD compatible side or layer.

At this point, I like both formats the way they are. At least they both work!

 

Flippers!? I like DVD-A as much as the next guy, but what is this, 1998?

 

This "flipper disc" is an old hat; there are quite a few of them already on the market, maybe not for DVD-A (but I am not sure), but as DVD-V+CD (for example as music video collection plus CD). Ithink the real problem is a multilayer DVD-A with redbook on the same side. Due to DVD firmware standards, these discs heve been unplayable on most of the existing DVD players. For me, the DVDplus, flipperdisc or dualdisc or whatever one may christen it, seems to be the right way to go...

 

Apparently flippers dont work either with DVD-A, according to a news story in the last "Hi-Fi Choice"...back to the drawing board.

More and more non-audiophiles (i.e. most people) I speak to want to buy music on DVD these days for better, for worse. They have their nice surround set ups at home and it is just the most convenient way to buy music other than CD's...they get the visuals with their 5.1.

Me, I still hope for the success of SACD/hybrid discs...but then again I'm an audiophile already!!

 

Why wouldn't flippers work with DVD-A? Is it maybe something to do with the weight of the disc?

For what it's worth, I don't really like DVD 'flipper' discs because it seems like it's impossible to keep from damaging one side or the other in some way, but I can understand their need to make double sided DVD-A's. FWIW, I knew that they would never be able to get a 'hybrid' layered DVD-A disc to work.

 

Hi GoldenBoy,

Don't know exactly - just read that they "couldn't get them to play properly" in Hi-Fi Choice mag in the UK.

If I find out more I'll post here of course.

 

EMI's classical catalog DVD-As are flippers -- DVD-A on one side, Dolby Digital on the other.

 

Flippers aren't bad when you consider (me for instance) I hate using the TV to get to the damn stereo mix.

Like, the WB "Capt & Me" by Doobie Bros. Just put in the side and you're set.

And true, flippers require a bit more action in handling, and even worse, a few DVD-V I own (Woodstock, Directors cut) have had cracks in the spindle.

They need to make sure they seal that hub down GOOD. Other than that you have to be VERY careful.

 

Hi-Fi Choice is wrong. Trust me.

 

Sniff sniff - ahhhh, the stench of a redbook cd layer that's been maximized/sonically crushed and a DVD-A flipside with alla the goodies - does the Dark Side of the Moon dual layer SACD ring a bell???

 

Hmmmm...does anyone smell a complete Beatles re-issue program on
DVD-A with 5.1 mixes, and Hi Res stereo mixes on one side , and the original Stereo AND Mono mixes remastered at 24 bits on the Redbook side. To me, that would be a huge winner.

 

I don't know if I am off-base here or not, but I have one DVD-V/CD flipper (The Blair Witch Project 2 movie), and I think the issue with this disc is that pasting a DVD layer together with a redbook CD layer makes the disc a bit thicker than a normal redbook CD or hybrid SACD (or regular dual layer DVD for that matter).

In fact there is a disclaimer on the package of the "Blair Witch Project 2" that the CD layer should not be used with in-dash car CD players (probably because of the thickness).

If this same issue holds true for flipper DVD-A/redbook CD "hybrids", then there could justifiably be a problem having the discs play in all compatible CD players.

 

Yes, they are. I actually own one of them.

 

Mark Waldrep of AIX posted at the HTF a while back that the thickness issue had been addressed and that flippers can be made that fit the Redbook thickness guidelines.

Bring on the flippers, I'd love to have them!

Studios like Disney and MGM sell a lot of flipper DVDs, so I'd say consumers can learn to handle them without damage. If you can't handle a flipper DVD without damage, how can you manage a regular CD? Remember, the top of a CD is more suceptible to critical damage than the bottom is!

Flipper CD/DVD-A discs would be the most versatile audio format ever made!

 

Already Hybrids

Well thinking about this another way, DVD-A discs are already hybrids. They contain a backwards compatible Dolby and/or DTS stream(s). After all they are classified as DVD's and SACD's are classified as CD's.

 

Rather than start a new thread here is a stupid question that can be simply answered:

Can the video portion on a DVD-A disc be played on any DVD player NTSC or PAL in other word if someone buys a DVD-A disc here in the US can they view it in Europe (or vice versa)?

Sorry for the thread drift.

 

I believe there are "regions"......we here in NA are region 1......so I don't think you can do that.

 

Yes they do, and I hate them. About 50% of the time, new discs come with marks on one side. Although mild surface scratches don't seem to affect playability (at least as long as your player is new or your laser is strong/clean or new) it ruins the disc from a collectibility or resale standpoint, and it bugs me to pay $20 for something that LOOKS like it's been mishandled. But so many of the new flippers come this way I don't even bother to return them anymore, unless the marks are BAD. The packaging on DVD-A is a lot better, so this may not be a problem with DVD-A. But I'm not counting on it.

Although the top of a CD may be more suceptible to critical damage than the bottom is, minor surface marks don't usually show up because the label tends to protect the side to some extent, and to conceal minor damage. You don't get this with a flipper, which no matter how obsessively careful you are will eventually collect a minor mark or fingerprint on at least one side if you handle/play the disc much at all.

 

Well, that'll change my Captain and Me" disc now won't it? It's already dual sided...

jeepers... this is rediculous...