Early animation-bobbing up and down

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Joel1963, Sep 10, 2009.

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  1. Joel1963

    Joel1963 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal
    Just watched an old Popeye from 1933, and there's an overabundance of just about every character bobbing up and down when they're standing in one place. Why was this such a feature of early animated cartoons...
     
  2. rmos

    rmos Forum Resident

    Every time our family watches one of those old Popeye cartoons, we all start bobbing right along with the characters! :laugh:
     
  3. Joel1963

    Joel1963 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal
    :laugh:
     
  4. Jeff Wong

    Jeff Wong Gort

    Location:
    NY
    I suspect it was an easy way to prevent the characters from appearing too static by just reusing a minimal number of cels.
     
  5. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Jeff is partly right, but I think it was just the style for the period -- making sure all the characters moved along with the music.

    There's a whole animation discussion about the problem of "Mickey Mousing" music, where every little gesture the cartoon character does is accompanied by a musical piece. Some feel it gets irritating after awhile, but I'd argue it's kind of quaint and just the way things were, back in the 1930s.
     
  6. AudioGirl

    AudioGirl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Those are called "HOLDS", unique to Max Fleischer cartoons of the time. We have watched many of them in the last few months. My husband believes the style disappeared from the Fleischer films around 1935. I'm glad, it makes me seasick.
     
  7. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    I've seen them referred to as The Fleischer Bounce, but yes, somewhat unique to Fleischer. And very deliberate.

    Competition was keen in 30s animation, and everybody scrambled for ways to one-up Disney, whose relatively high-budget cartoons featured lots of characters and action. Max Fleischer's response was to keep most everything in motion during a short to maintain visual interest. While an eye was kept on economy (repeating actions), the objective was to dazzle the eye first and foremost. If a gag needed elaborate animation, it got it.

    Max really relied on these boosts, as his cartoons (despite strong characters like Betty Boop and Bimbo) were pretty short on storylines. This would change later with Popeye. I love the "Bounce" and other Fleischer innovations (3D tabletop backgrounds, vocal mumbles, etc). Very quaint, definitely from another time and place.

    "I likes the Beatle remaskers"
    .
     
  8. AudioGirl

    AudioGirl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    FYI, my husband knew the only Fleischer animator who lived long enough to be appreciated (Myron Waldman sp?) and he was the one who called the bobbing action a "hold". He said he disliked it because it created extra work.
     
  9. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Yup, correct spelling. And deserved recognition.

    There certainly was other talent there: Bowsky, Tendlar, Kneitel and who-knows-how-many uncredited animators. And most faded into obscurity.

    Kneitel continued on as a credited director for decades with Famous Studios (Popeye, Casper etc).
    .
     
  10. Joel1963

    Joel1963 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Montreal
    :agree::laugh:
     
  11. The Fleischer's did a number of innovative effects for their cartoons. In fact to some degree the "hyper" reality of those cartoons using the table top "sets" as backgrounds for the cartoons gave an almost 3D effect that was hard to match even with the multi-plane animation backgrounds for Disney cartoons.

    I also loved some of the Superman cartoons which had some of the most detailed animation work from the Fleischer's ever done although the rotoscoping for "Gulliver's Travels" was a bit too "hyper" real for me. It didn't blend well with the "cartoony" design and execution of the other characters.

    Nevertheless, it's an impressive bid by the Fleischer's to one-up Disney.
     
  12. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    AK-ak-ak-ak-ak-ak!
     
  13. mr_mjb1960

    mr_mjb1960 I'm a Tarrytowner 'Til I die!

    A fact: Popeye,drawn by a man named Segar,was a Foul-Mouthed Sailor who'd HATED Spinach! The artist "Cleaned Up" the Sailor's mouth and changed his preferences to the leafy,green Vegetable when he realized he'd get more money there...true story!
     
  14. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Adding to that, his appearance was, uhhhh, let's just say he wasn't "Hollywood-handsome."

    His very first appearance in the comic strips:
    .
     
  15. And speaking of the Beatles, the Bounce seems to have had a definite influence on John Lennon's stage presence during the band's suit-wearing years!
     
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