Ebay.....didn't win, frustrations

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by spanky1, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. melstapler

    melstapler Forum Resident

    Definitely, that happened to me last week. The seller told me he negotiated a deal directly with someone who contacted him and the listing was ended early. Apparently, a seller can cancel an auction if the item is stolen or no longer available and then sell the item to someone outside of the site. Either way, I suppose Paypal still makes money from the transactions, but it counts as a failure and you don't forget that until something better comes along.
     
  2. Giorgio

    Giorgio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Varese Italy
    As usual, I always put only one bid, the maximum I can due to my wallet and at the value I think is acceptable to spend for that title.
    In order to improve what I have in my collection, I tried to take 7 LPs in these past 10 days...last bid this night.
    Nothing to do, all 7 auctions ended with a bidder over me, seven time in second position...
    This monday morning my humor is very black!
     
    melstapler likes this.
  3. melstapler

    melstapler Forum Resident

    Keep your chin up and just remember that something better (lower price, better condition) will come along and make you glad you didn't win those auctions. ;)
     
    Giorgio likes this.
  4. Giorgio

    Giorgio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Varese Italy
    It happened :pineapple:
     
    tmtomh, GMcGilli and melstapler like this.
  5. UltraSoundSquid

    UltraSoundSquid Forum Resident

    Well, this might count as being outbid, but I really don't like the auto-bid feature, where you put in your maximum bid and it adds to that incrementally - instantaneously outbidding anyone who tries to place one against you. I know that in post #22 of this very thread it worked in my favor, and I said "I am not complaining", but really, I would have had no qualms throwing down $22 on a box set that ordinarily goes for $60.

    This one was another box set and there was one bid on it, for the starting price (about $35). So I waited until there were 5 seconds left, like a real ******* (but it's eBay, I really don't care because it just seems like nobody honest uses it anymore), and put in my bid for $37. And then I was alerted that I lost. The winning bid? $38. The most recent bid? $37. Mine. They set their maximum bid to $38 - or probably higher - yesterday.

    The reason this irritates me is because this would never fly in a real auction house. You could never talk to the auctioneer and say "hey, disqualify everyone who bids under $500 and only charge me a little bit more than the other final bid". It's just bad practice. And you can't retract your bid in an auction house - once you say a number, you're obligated to pay that much. I wouldn't have cared if I'd been out-sniped, because that happens all the time - it's the fact that I was out-sniped yesterday that just makes me shake my head.

    It really bothers me. When eBay introduced Buy it Now, it nearly killed the auction process. This new auto-bidding thing just feels like it's desecrating the corpse. Why even bother having the auction process when you can basically just turn it into a buy it now? There's no point.

    There's a copy of the same box set for sale on Discogs for only a little bit more, so I'm going to see if we can work out a deal and put this behind me.
     
  6. Subvet

    Subvet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern Maine
    I can't imagine how it could work otherwise. It can't possibly work like an auction house. There the bidding doesn't end at a precise moment. It ends when no one else wants to bid more.
    I find the ebay auction system simple and fair, so long as they prevent owners or colluders from make bids they never intend to honor. I simply decide the most I'm willing to pay and set that bid using eSnipe. I win some and I loose some.
     
    showtaper likes this.
  7. UltraSoundSquid

    UltraSoundSquid Forum Resident

    I'm not saying eBay has to be just like an auction house... just that this feature defeats the purpose of an actual auction. It's more of a best offer that you have to wait for, and that you don't even have to end up paying for in full. It just seems pointless to me.
     
  8. GMcGilli

    GMcGilli Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond BC Canada
    I've been paying much more attention lately to how the bidding shows up on auctions I am interested in.

    The other day there was a LP I wanted. 7 day auction. On day one someone bid for the opening price off $19.99. The auction said "1 Bid".

    As it was a 7 day auction I waited a few days. I looked around on the net, and Discogs etc and determined that if I could get this for about $40 I would be happy as they are selling for $60 elsewhere. I went back to the auction - and saw it now said "$19.99 2 Bids". So I looked at the bid history, and it now showed the first bidder 2 times, with a bid of $19.99 on each bid.

    I bid $20.99 and was immediately outbid by him. So, I've figured out how that works. His first bid was $19.99 and I could have outbid him there and then. But, I waited, he came back and increased his bid as insurance against being outbid - or maybe he finally determined his max he was willing to spend.

    I've been doing a bit of auctioning lately so I tested this the other day. Brand new auction I'd like. I immediately opened the bidding at $0.99. Said 1 bid. I then went and bit again $10.00. It still showed $0.99 but said there were 2 bids on the auction now.

    So - at least there's a way to tell if a person is putting in extra, higher bids at later times before you get there....
     
  9. Subvet

    Subvet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern Maine
    You can look at the bid history and see the actual bids vs. the automatic bids (by clicking Show Automatic Bids). The Learn more about bidding link describes some differences.

    The only time I would ever bid directly on eBay is if I'm the first bidder and really want the item. I would bid the minimum, in which case I believe the owner cannot withdraw the item. I could be wrong on that point but that's what I believe to be the case.

    All other bidding I do using the eSnipe service where I can withdraw, raise or lower my bid up until 5 minutes of closing. I set it to bid with 6 or 8 seconds left. It's cheap and well worth it to me.

    The first big item I bid on, I did on eBay directly. Then someone who I believe was in collusion with the owner, made a dozen or so individual bids in $5 increments. I assume they would have canceled the bid if they had gone over my bid. That's the last time I entered my top bid without using the eSnipe service.
     
  10. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    I would agree with you, but as Subvet said, ebay auctions end at a certain time, not when bids are exhausted. You need to think of it as leaving a "commission bid", i.e., one where the auctioneer bids on your behalf. You just enter the maximum amount that you are willing to bid. I'm sure the changes were made in response to sniping software (how else can you deal with last second bids, and they are increasingly last second).
     
  11. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    I believe the seller can cancel bids up to a certain point in time, and then end the auction. The only real advantage would be that the seller might accept the opening bid and end the auction at that point.
     
    Subvet likes this.
  12. Subvet

    Subvet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern Maine
    There are penalties for the seller that wants to end the auction early (and not sell to the highest bidder) when there is at least one bid. Ending a listing early

    In any case I rarely ever bid for that purpose.
     
  13. UltraSoundSquid

    UltraSoundSquid Forum Resident

    I remember browsing eBay regularly when I was very young (probably around 8-10, I'm a younger one here) and although my memory is hazy I do remember eBay taking pains to try to stop sniping programs. Now, they've implemented it directly into their framework (sure, it combats sniping and sniping programs, but it's doing the same thing essentially). Now I don't have a problem with sniping, hell I just admitted that I did it today. But if you're going to allow automated bidding, which can counter-snipe the instant it happens, and the buyer doesn't even have to pay the entirety of the number they put up, there's no point in actually having auctions, in my opinion. It's basically a lengthened buy-it-now process in which other people think they have the opportunity to bid only to discover that they were outbid long before they even placed it. It just annoys me. I'm of the mind that you should be committed to pay exactly what you type into that box, and that what you type into that box should show up immediately. It strikes me as strange because I know eBay as a company loves money, yet they're using a system where the buyer has the option or opportunity to pay them less (unless I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure fees are a percentage of the total cost, not a flat rate - correct me if I'm wrong).
     
  14. GMcGilli

    GMcGilli Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond BC Canada
    But if it were to show your max immediately - the next person would just bid $1 more....

    What you're describing - to me - sounds like a silent auction. I see them around here in stores all the time for fundraising by auctioning paintings etc. Everyone has a set amount of time to input their highest bid - you can only enter 1 bid. Time runs out - whoever was willing to pay the most wins. End of story. No back and forth or increasing bids.

    So - if you bid $60 on an item, and the 2nd place person had only bid $17 - you still need to pay $60.
     
  15. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    Sounds like someone accepting undisclosed offers rather than an auction. If you leave instructions for the auctioneer because you are unable to bid in person, then they will bid on your behalf to the maximum amount.
     
  16. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    Sniping will always be a problem on ebay, because the end time of the auction is determined in advance. I'm not so sure the ebay fees will be significantly lower in the current system, as the only real difference is the fewer number of bids needed. Everyone simply enters the maximum they are willing to pay.
     
  17. UltraSoundSquid

    UltraSoundSquid Forum Resident

    I'd be fine with that. My problem with eBay is that if you bid $60 and the second highest bidder bids $17, you only have to pay $18. Because of that, there's nothing stopping anyone from placing a max bid of $50,000 and then only ending up paying like $40.
    But, to me, that just sounds like a "best offer" deal. Not an auction. Maybe I just need to get used to it being called by a different name.
     
  18. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    Apart from two idiots placing a very high maximum bid. Also, the price of an item can change very suddenly in the last few seconds. NEVER use the buttons to submit a bid. Always type the figure in the box. I've seen an item start out at $20 and sell for three times as much in the last few seconds.
     
  19. UltraSoundSquid

    UltraSoundSquid Forum Resident

    If two people put in maximum bids and one submits a counter-bid in the last few seconds, will it ricochet back and forth like a feedback loop, bringing the price up? Or when immediately countered, would you have to type in a number again?
     
  20. Subvet

    Subvet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern Maine
    The bid price will immediately go to the appropriate amount over the next highest bid. So if one bid $1000 and the other $2000 it will go to $1000 + the minimum amount. I don't bid that high so I don't know what the minimum is at that level.
     
  21. UltraSoundSquid

    UltraSoundSquid Forum Resident

    Okay, thanks. I kind of had it in my mind that someone could look at the bidding history and see this:

    Winner: #1 $2000 12:24:36
    Bid 29: #2 $1975 12:24:36
    Bid 28: #1 $1950 12:24:36
    Bid 27: #2 $1925 12:24:35
    Bid 26: #1 $1900 12:24:35
    Bid 25: #2 $1875 12:24:35
    Bid 24: #1 $1850 12:24:35
    Bid 23: #2 $1825 12:24:34
    Bid 22: #1 $1800 12:24:34

    And so on (assuming that the next minimum bid increases by $25 at that range of course). Would be pretty funny to see that though.
     
    Subvet likes this.
  22. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    There's no time to type in the number again if the bids were submitted in the last few seconds. The actual auction had just two bids. The winning bid, and the maximum amount the other bidder was willing to pay. Both these bids occurred in the last few seconds. Possibly last second.
     
  23. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    You rarely see any kind of back and forth bidding these days. If you did, then I suspect the item is very rare, and the bidders are suffering some kind of paranoia.
     
  24. Subvet

    Subvet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern Maine
    The reason sniping can work to get you the item for less is because people will often not put in their highest bid. So they may bid $20 even if they might actually be willing to pay $40. They won't bid more until they are out bid. So if you bid in the last few seconds they may not enter a higher bid. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only way to bid. Either directly on eBay in the last seconds or by using a service.
     
    Muzyck and Dave S like this.
  25. UltraSoundSquid

    UltraSoundSquid Forum Resident

    Right. I just kind of thought that the countering of automatic bids went incrementally and that would be the transcript of it happening. It's at least nice to know that the auction is less likely to crash from that! :laugh:
     

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