eBay Zooropa vinyl disaster

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by John Barrett, Apr 2, 2017.

  1. John Barrett

    John Barrett Member Thread Starter

    Ok I'm sorry to post this, I'd just love people's thoughts on my disastrous eBay purchase last week.

    Basically I bought a copy of U2's Zooropa (buy it now) from a guy in the UK for £60. It arrived and sounded terrible, turns out it's a Brazilian pressing. (worth way less)
    So I ask for a return which the seller flatly refuses. He said he'd never had a record returned due to where it was manufactured and that pressings are all the same!

    There was no mention in the description of it being a Brazilian pressing. I assumed that due to the price and his location that it would be a UK or EU press.
    The only indication is one picture (of 9 in all) of the label, if you zoom in you can see 'made in Brazil' on the edge of the label.

    All I would like to know is who is in the wrong?
    Is it my fault for not checking the picture of the label and my assumption that it would be a uk press?

    Surely if it's a Brazilian press he should have said so in the description?

    I wondered if anyone has ever had a similar experience?

    Sorry, totally understand if no one is interested in this!!
     
    tmtomh likes this.
  2. Pieter Kozak

    Pieter Kozak Well-Known Member

    Tough one. I try not to buy expensive pressings on Ebay and stick to Discogs for this. File a return through ebay and start a dispute with paypal. You're pretty much covered with Paypal.
     
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  3. Pieter Kozak

    Pieter Kozak Well-Known Member

    I have just found the listing on Ebay and in the description he states

    "U2 1993 Zooropa LP in Excellent condition,play tested and sounds great" To you it doesn't so you are covered. It's not as described.
     
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  4. George Blair

    George Blair Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    If there's a clear picture of the label (didn't see the listing) does that count as description ?
     
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  5. Pieter Kozak

    Pieter Kozak Well-Known Member

    U2 Zooropa 1993 Vinyl LP Exc+/Con | eBay

    He states though that it plays and sounds great.. Surely there is a dispute here?
     
  6. George Blair

    George Blair Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I don't know. Isn't that subjective rather than descriptive?
     
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  7. Pieter Kozak

    Pieter Kozak Well-Known Member

    I see your point, but he's describing it as great. It's not to the buyer, I don't see why the seller has a problem with the return. If it sounds so great he can sell it again or is he deceiving.
     
    George Blair likes this.
  8. George Blair

    George Blair Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Of course, the seller should accept a return. I was just questioning the strength of a claim with PayPal.
     
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  9. John Barrett

    John Barrett Member Thread Starter

    Thanks for the responses. I have opened a claim with PayPal which quickly escalated to a dispute.
    The 'sounds great' description is subjective. Compared to a uk pressing it sounds really flat and lifeless, totally lacking in bass, which the uk has plenty of.

    I also think it's a deliberately misleading description, he knew if he'd mentioned it was Brazilian no one would have bought it.

    I'm generally a discogs over eBay guy but I've never had an issue like this with a seller that is deliberately trying to mislead and refusing any kind of return.
    Anyway hoping PayPal help me out, to me it seems obvious but it may not to them.
     
  10. Pieter Kozak

    Pieter Kozak Well-Known Member

    Yeah you should be fine. Ironically I got my NM UK Zooropa off Ebay last year for £40.00 including P+P to Poland. Lucky find i guess. It does indeed sound great as you suggest. Good luck. Keep us updated.
     
  11. John Barrett

    John Barrett Member Thread Starter

    Ah cheers, lucky find indeed, nice one! I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again!
     
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  12. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    I agree with @John Barrett that the seller intentionally omitted any mention that it is a Brazilian pressing - the fact that the seller provided a close-up photo of the label, where the country of origin is obvious, shows that by any reasonable standard the seller knew what this was and didn't mention that detail because he knew it would make it difficult if not impossible to sell for £60.

    At the same time, while the label is the only evidence that it's a Brazilian pressing, the label photo is indeed a close-up, and the entire printing around the label's edge clearly is in Portuguese - and even if someone doesn't know Portuguese, it's clearly in a non-English language. So the "Made in Brazil" note is not in fact the only evidence.

    Finally, as @George Blair notes, "sounds great" is hopelessly subjective, and "the record is flat-sounding with insufficient bass" is not likely, by itself, to be sufficient to win the PayPal dispute.

    This is not to say that John shouldn't have filed the dispute, and it's not to say I don't hope he wins - I very much hope he wins because the seller clearly was shady here, clearly trying to make the listing technically accurate while at the same time trying to lure in a high-dollar buyer by creating the impression it was a UK pressing. (The Brazilian and UK LPs also have the identical catalogue number.)

    So my only recommendation to John would be that if PayPal asks for info, I would focus mainly on any actual playback issues, like if there are skips, pops, crackles, surface noise, whatever.

    And a secondary point could be the seller's misleading behavior, offering a pressing that every collector knows is not the usual pressing, and deliberately excluding that info from anywhere in the listing while including a single photo with small print, just to cover his behind when the inevitable return request would come in.

    I would not say anything about the subjective sound quality.
     
  13. George Blair

    George Blair Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Yes, I would stick to the provenance issue. Even PayPal should understand that records are commonly sold as USA and European in origin. The misrepresentation was in not specifying otherwise.
     
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  14. noahjld

    noahjld Forum Resident

    Caveat emptor,lulz.
     
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  15. John Barrett

    John Barrett Member Thread Starter

    Cheers folks, comments massively appreciated. Some very good points there, thanks!
     
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  16. John Barrett

    John Barrett Member Thread Starter

    Ok so Paypal have decided the case in my favour and refunded me. However the seller is appealing the decision. This guy doesn't give up easily. Anyway hoping/assuming he'll fail, thanks again for all the advice!
     
    George Blair likes this.
  17. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Well if I were him I'd appeal the decision too. If you wanted a UK pressing why didn't you make sure it was instead of assuming the seller would state it isn't if it isn't? I had a look at the ad and it's pretty easy to see it is not a UK pressing when you look at the close up of the labels. You would've noticed that if you had looked.

    Although, I would've stated it was a Brazilian pressing if it were my ad, I don't think there's any proof he tried to hide anything. The pictures tell the whole story.

    It's happened to me in the past. Now I make sure.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
    Dave likes this.
  18. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Paypal won't care about that i.e. offering a pressing that every collector knows is the usual pressing. They'll care more if a buyer sticks to factual errors in the listing either regarding sound i.e. the pops, skips, etc or pressing details and as you suggested I would stick with stuff like that.

    All the other stuff is good to have in case you can use it to bother Paypal enough that they just refund you as a courtesy, which they sometimes do. :)

    In my experience anything subjective like what collectors might or might not know is irrelevant to them.

    Also, looking at the ad I don't see any signs of deception. He might not have mentioned it was not a UK pressing but anyone could easily see that it's not a UK pressing by looking at the photos he provided. I'd say the buyer contributed to their own situation.
     
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  19. John Barrett

    John Barrett Member Thread Starter

    You're right, i should've looked at the one photo of the label, close up. However for the price listed i think my assumption it was a UK pressing is not an unfair one. I really was not looking out for clues that would tell me otherwise. I shouldn't need to look for clues, it should have been mentioned in the listing.
     
    Pieter Kozak likes this.
  20. asodoma

    asodoma Active Member

    Location:
    rochester, ny
    The guy has another U2 record up for sale and he has this on the ad:
    Country/Region of Manufacture: United Kingdom

    So, it seems like he might have been hiding the fact that this one was from Brazil...
     
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