Ella Fitzgerald "Clap Hands, Here Comes Charlie!" Verve CD, audiophile quality, out there cheap!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. Robert C

    Robert C Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Same, playing now! The vocal is amazing :)
     
    garrincha likes this.
  2. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    I got this based off of Steve's recommendation from a year ago. Amazing sounding album. The best that I've ever heard Ella Fitzgerald sound.
     
    basie-fan likes this.
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Played mine today, still sounds great.
     
    dalem5467, RiRiIII, Turmatic and 6 others like this.
  4. RelayerNJ

    RelayerNJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    Whippany, NJ
    How does it compare to the original vinyl?
     
  5. culabula

    culabula Unread author.

    Location:
    Belfast, Ireland

    Funny, was just playing that this evening. Arrived yesterday. Then I read this thread !
     
    RelayerNJ likes this.
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Kills it.
     
    dalem5467, RiRiIII, RelayerNJ and 2 others like this.
  7. culabula

    culabula Unread author.

    Location:
    Belfast, Ireland
    Scored one on eBay for 10€. Arrived just now and am playing it. Pretty cool -it's the actual one as recommended in this thread.

    Incidentally is this (horrible) cover the inspiration for Dylan's 'Self Portrait'?
     
    crp207 likes this.
  8. Reader

    Reader Senior Member

    Location:
    e.s.t. tenn.
    I want to warn anyone who is trying to get a copy of this CD. The copy that is being sent out by some 3rd party sellers in Europe from Amazon looks like the right item but it isn't. The copy I received, and returned, is a CD-R. As soon as you open the case it is obvious that something is wrong. The disc is not as shiny as a real pressed CD, feels a little thinner but is made to pass as a regular CD. The disc has the regular print on the face of the disc but if you check it with software that id's discs it is a CD-R.

    This might be ok if the seller or Amazon stated that the item was a CD-R but they don't. This is the second time I've received this type of disc without being told before I ordered it. I return them and get a refund. This seems to be a problem with Jazz material mainly. Beware!

    Anyone else have this problem?
     
  9. The current CD being sold by AMAZON UK, note, not just Marketplace sellers, is a printed CD-R with photocopy quality artwork! I ordered from Amazon and received the same thing. Should I return it and what do I do instead? Maybe buy the Speakers Corner LP?

    There is only one original CD of this album and that's the Drake - the CD-R version is the same copy of that. So in conclusion:

    1. It is NOT out of print technically as new copies are being sold but...
    2. The new copies are CD-R's, true, but.......
    3. They are true copies of the one and only true mastering for CD this has received ignoring the EJC release (different cover) and later EU copyright / PD rights releases and therefore it is the DRAKE mastering!
    4. It's not expensive currently on Amazon - £7.50, unless that is expensive for a CD-R only version?
    5. There is a single LP, all analogue cut / mastered by Speakers Corner or
    6. Analogue Productions SACD / 45 rpm vinyl.
     
    Man at C&A likes this.
  10. The current CD being sold by AMAZON UK, note, not just Marketplace sellers, is a printed CD-R with photocopy quality artwork! I ordered from Amazon and received the same thing. Should I return it and what do I do instead? Maybe buy the Speakers Corner LP?

    There is only one original CD of this album and that's the Drake - the CD-R version is the same copy of that. So in conclusion:

    1. It is NOT out of print technically as new copies are being sold but...
    2. The new copies are CD-R's, true, but.......
    3. They are true copies of the one and only true mastering for CD this has received ignoring the EJC release (different cover) and later EU copyright / PD rights releases and therefore it is the DRAKE mastering!
    4. It's not expensive currently on Amazon - £7.50, unless that is expensive for a CD-R only version?
    5. There is a single LP, all analogue cut / mastered by Speakers Corner or
    6. Analogue Productions SACD / 45 rpm vinyl.
     
  11. Lucidae

    Lucidae AAD

    Location:
    Australia
    No way would I pay money for a CD-R. Couldn't know for sure if it was accurately ripped, or the life expectancy of the disc itself. If I were you I'd track down a used copy on Discogs.
     
  12. Well funnily enough since I typed my post earlier I have given it more thought and instigated a customer return to Amazon with the reason given that "the item description is inaccurate" and noted it is a CD-R, not a printed disc as per Amazon listing. Also, I have spotted some "used like new" copies on Amazon marketplace which are cheaper than the Discogs offers so I purchased a used one from there. Now, if THAT copy is also a CD-R I'll repeat the process but from experience it seems that third party sellers are reluctant to pay postal charges for returns on cheap items, especially if the item has a fault so I might get a cheap or free copy, if all doesn't work out as I hope.

    I really hope the used copies are the printed 1989 disc though and not CD-R's professionally produced from the same disc.

    I've also ordered the Speakers Corner single LP reissue from 2010 as I needed to pad out an order from Pure Pleasure Ltd.
     
  13. rxcory

    rxcory proud jazz band/marching band parent

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    You may have better luck on Discogs. At least it's easy to ask a seller questions before you buy.
     
  14. That's true if a) you get a response and b) the seller actually knows what it is they're selling. The same does apply to Amazon Marketplace sellers, of course. I'm frequently amazed at how few people claim to actually know anything about what it is they're actually selling.

    Anyway, Discogs beckons if my Plan B fails!
     
  15. ishmaelk

    ishmaelk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madrid
    Can anyone tell me if that terrible remaster Steve refers to is the one included in The Complete Original Songbooks boxset?
     
  16. Yes, it is!
     
  17. A CD-R is a straight transfer of audio files and complete 100% facsimile of the original CD, surely? No data can go astray? How can anything be missing, otherwise you'd hear gaps in the music? In my own, admittedly limited, experience burning discs, even using the cheapest software and PC's, the SQ of the CD-R has always been identical to the original Redbook CD.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  18. Espen R

    Espen R Senior Member

    Location:
    Norway
    When I play my Bernie Grundman mastering of the japanese CD/SACD edition of The Carpenters "singles 1969-73", I hear a obvious similarity in sound and mastering choices with this Dennis Drake mastering of dear Ella. Both sounds clean, clear and transparent (good tape transfer), both has the natural tape hiss preserved, both sounds a bit lightweight in the mid bass area, (not added extra bass in the mastering) and in both; the female voice comes thru in a most excellent way.

    Listen for yourself :)
     
    Jarleboy likes this.
  19. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    It is possible to verify that the CD-R version is an accurate copy of the pressed CD. But you'll need to have a log files of a rip from the original CD to do the comparison.

    You can verify the CD-R using CUETools. If CUETools is able to match the CD-R to the CD then everything is good and the CD-R is an exact audio copy of the CD. If you don't get a match then you're still in an unknown state, no knowing if the CD-R is accurate or not (it's possible for the CD-R to not match but still be 100% accurate audio data).

    For anyone who has gotten the CD-R version and wants to check, here are the CUETools log and CUERipper log for my rip.
    The release I have is Verve 835 646-2: Ella Fitzgerald - Clap Hands, Here Comes Charlie!

    CUETools log:
    Code:
    Pregap length 00:00:32.
    [CTDB TOCID: ZGxSssVa_M3uWz7cIEsszONs814-] found.
    Track | CTDB Status
      1   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
      2   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
      3   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
      4   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
      5   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
      6   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
      7   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
      8   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
      9   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
     10   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
     11   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
     12   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
     13   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
     14   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
     15   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
     16   | (16/17) Accurately ripped
     17   | (14/17) Accurately ripped
    [AccurateRip ID: 0025cea3-01dc7276-f20df111] found.
    Track   [  CRC   |   V2   ] Status
     01     [65af630e|ae6e769b] (12+04/61) Accurately ripped
     02     [f05681c9|77f5a3cb] (12+04/63) Accurately ripped
     03     [888a1c99|82e4edca] (12+04/61) Accurately ripped
     04     [175964f2|e4d00480] (12+04/63) Accurately ripped
     05     [5cd6c82d|1b03748a] (12+03/62) Accurately ripped
     06     [baf462e7|1c30a70e] (12+03/62) Accurately ripped
     07     [88d8a2da|adacbf23] (12+03/58) Accurately ripped
     08     [fc723d69|64d8b3db] (12+03/60) Accurately ripped
     09     [f81a1cf8|4fa210f3] (12+03/61) Accurately ripped
     10     [18b75864|100ed18c] (12+04/62) Accurately ripped
     11     [8c179106|68044fbb] (12+03/61) Accurately ripped
     12     [7ce59b5a|80eebea3] (12+04/60) Accurately ripped
     13     [0ea54aa9|800e54af] (12+03/60) Accurately ripped
     14     [4bb6e6c2|0c6cf333] (12+03/61) Accurately ripped
     15     [02f9f238|6aa0aed8] (12+03/62) Accurately ripped
     16     [9ccec591|9732d602] (11+03/61) Accurately ripped
     17     [6b94dcad|47b92c5e] (12+03/61) Accurately ripped
    Offsetted by 1034:
     01     [cb211442] (04/61) Accurately ripped
     02     [876aef65] (04/63) Accurately ripped
     03     [f8b6a859] (04/61) Accurately ripped
     04     [bf4d0136] (04/63) Accurately ripped
     05     [948a5b0f] (04/62) Accurately ripped
     06     [7d8e7767] (04/62) Accurately ripped
     07     [6cbb522c] (04/58) Accurately ripped
     08     [50900761] (04/60) Accurately ripped
     09     [28fad3fa] (04/61) Accurately ripped
     10     [5bf38d3e] (04/62) Accurately ripped
     11     [4095d00e] (04/61) Accurately ripped
     12     [186eafe2] (04/60) Accurately ripped
     13     [c3dab431] (04/60) Accurately ripped
     14     [d3be7c52] (04/61) Accurately ripped
     15     [4b4317ee] (04/62) Accurately ripped
     16     [4ea1c849] (04/61) Accurately ripped
     17     [ee2db0d4] (04/61) Accurately ripped
    Offsetted by 2013:
     01     [492282d8] (03/61) Accurately ripped
     02     [08d82627] (03/63) Accurately ripped
     03     [7b6e7379] (03/61) Accurately ripped
     04     [b577be04] (03/63) Accurately ripped
     05     [d1730416] (03/62) Accurately ripped
     06     [436c9b27] (03/62) Accurately ripped
     07     [316e8b3b] (03/58) Accurately ripped
     08     [3e298285] (03/60) Accurately ripped
     09     [058e3a71] (03/61) Accurately ripped
     10     [41bce569] (03/62) Accurately ripped
     11     [cd852c6a] (03/61) Accurately ripped
     12     [b94fcb7e] (03/60) Accurately ripped
     13     [87ef514d] (03/60) Accurately ripped
     14     [46ebcb4a] (03/61) Accurately ripped
     15     [593c183b] (03/62) Accurately ripped
     16     [e3ef040d] (03/61) Accurately ripped
     17     [57ce71f6] (03/61) Accurately ripped
    Offsetted by 2390:
     01     [aebd9a9a] (04/61) Accurately ripped
     02     [b48a2e6d] (04/63) Accurately ripped
     03     [a88a14d9] (04/61) Accurately ripped
     04     [b943b06e] (04/63) Accurately ripped
     05     [7a8e1d2b] (04/62) Accurately ripped
     06     [cff28667] (05/62) Accurately ripped
     07     [8e2ce468] (04/58) Accurately ripped
     08     [c05bfbf1] (04/60) Accurately ripped
     09     [bbc56bd6] (04/61) Accurately ripped
     10     [240813ea] (04/62) Accurately ripped
     11     [88e4397e] (04/61) Accurately ripped
     12     [94ae9652] (04/60) Accurately ripped
     13     [4293a0a1] (04/60) Accurately ripped
     14     [617e2832] (04/61) Accurately ripped
     15     [177d6322] (05/62) Accurately ripped
     16     [8b83ff59] (05/61) Accurately ripped
     17     [8f02bbf3] (05/61) Accurately ripped
    Offsetted by 2461:
     01     [731b5258] (08/61) Accurately ripped
     02     [a1f254a7] (09/63) Accurately ripped
     03     [382a1b79] (09/61) Accurately ripped
     04     [1c70e384] (09/63) Accurately ripped
     05     [da3b9ed6] (09/62) Accurately ripped
     06     [85e9cb27] (09/62) Accurately ripped
     07     [a8781ffb] (08/58) Accurately ripped
     08     [bdb7a785] (08/60) Accurately ripped
     09     [3fdec131] (09/61) Accurately ripped
     10     [d92ca529] (09/62) Accurately ripped
     11     [6385676a] (09/61) Accurately ripped
     12     [8dc8967e] (09/60) Accurately ripped
     13     [ee36fc4d] (08/60) Accurately ripped
     14     [6523914a] (09/61) Accurately ripped
     15     [05acfe7b] (08/62) Accurately ripped
     16     [e830b10d] (09/61) Accurately ripped
     17     [cf49160f] (09/61) Accurately ripped
    Offsetted by 948:
     01     [c7a4beb6] (00/61) No match (V2 was not tested)
     02     [1fbde8c1] (00/63) No match (V2 was not tested)
     03     [110e1019] (00/61) No match (V2 was not tested)
     04     [e5d1bfba] (00/63) No match (V2 was not tested)
     05     [36486b11] (00/62) No match (V2 was not tested)
     06     [99ef93e7] (00/62) No match (V2 was not tested)
     07     [a7060d9e] (00/58) No match (V2 was not tested)
     08     [65ca74d9] (00/60) No match (V2 was not tested)
     09     [48123a1c] (00/61) No match (V2 was not tested)
     10     [a49862b8] (00/62) No match (V2 was not tested)
     11     [fe137b96] (00/61) No match (V2 was not tested)
     12     [20c9c8ea] (00/60) No match (V2 was not tested)
     13     [795cf239] (00/60) No match (V2 was not tested)
     14     [103aa2e2] (00/61) No match (V2 was not tested)
     15     [6471fe04] (00/62) No match (V2 was not tested)
     16     [75d09a81] (00/61) No match (V2 was not tested)
     17     [5dbaf548] (00/61) No match (V2 was not tested)
    
    Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL] [  LOG   ]
     --   95.5 [7D64611C] [6F123616]   CRC32
     01   89.2 [3139E010] [1C6E8DA3]        
     02   52.1 [2DAB409D] [380362C1]        
     03   95.5 [06A446F1] [8B9801F4]        
     04   93.3 [499EE9E1] [CF6EAC4A]        
     05   59.4 [475A01A7] [20AE9D43]        
     06   94.7 [8B3310FC] [BBC9F4EC]        
     07   60.7 [1C307514] [3CDE447A]        
     08   87.5 [E40B7609] [3DA6D278]        
     09   95.5 [C0666F78] [E285DD8E]        
     10   77.8 [53A87FD8] [ABFF371E]        
     11   76.2 [2740F858] [EDCA872E]        
     12   93.3 [35411916] [A5F12D86]        
     13   82.0 [715C825B] [56890A23]        
     14   94.9 [C4EC76B0] [A69E61AF]        
     15   95.5 [E5ABD0DA] [80264012]        
     16   70.1 [17AF2EEE] [60AB3274]        
     17   87.8 [6050A9D4] [91770AE4]
    

    The CUERipper log:
    Code:
    CUERipper v2.1.5 Copyright (C) 2008-13 Grigory Chudov
    
    EAC extraction logfile from 12. January 2017, 22:17
    
    Ella Fitzgerald / Clap Hands, Here Comes Charlie!
    
    Used drive  : MATSHITA DVD+-RW UJ8E1   Adapter: 1  ID: 0
    
    Read mode               : Burst
    Utilize accurate stream : Yes
    Defeat audio cache      : Yes
    Make use of C2 pointers : No
    
    Read offset correction                      : 6
    Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
    Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
    Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
    Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
    Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
    
    Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
    Sample format      : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo
    
    
    TOC of the extracted CD
    
         Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
        ---------------------------------------------------------
            1  |  0:00.32 |  4:10.53 |        32    |    18834  
            2  |  4:11.10 |  3:39.32 |     18835    |    35291  
            3  |  7:50.42 |  3:20.08 |     35292    |    50299  
            4  | 11:10.50 |  3:21.07 |     50300    |    65381  
            5  | 14:31.57 |  3:31.63 |     65382    |    81269  
            6  | 18:03.45 |  3:36.02 |     81270    |    97471  
            7  | 21:39.47 |  3:49.33 |     97472    |   114679  
            8  | 25:29.05 |  4:16.65 |    114680    |   133944  
            9  | 29:45.70 |  2:18.20 |    133945    |   144314  
           10  | 32:04.15 |  4:21.12 |    144315    |   163901  
           11  | 36:25.27 |  2:45.35 |    163902    |   176311  
           12  | 39:10.62 |  2:46.03 |    176312    |   188764  
           13  | 41:56.65 |  6:17.15 |    188765    |   217054  
           14  | 48:14.05 |  2:30.65 |    217055    |   228369  
           15  | 50:44.70 |  2:16.20 |    228370    |   238589  
           16  | 53:01.15 |  3:45.27 |    238590    |   255491  
           17  | 56:46.42 |  2:43.05 |    255492    |   267721  
    
    
    Range status and errors
    
    Selected range
    
         Filename C:\Users\Dad\Music\Ella Fitzgerald\1989 - Clap Hands, Here Comes Charlie!\Ella Fitzgerald - Clap Hands, Here Comes Charlie!.wav
    
         Peak level 95.5 %
         Range quality 100.0 %
         Copy CRC 7D64611C
         Copy OK
    
    No errors occurred
    
    
    AccurateRip summary
    
    Track  1  accurately ripped (confidence 16)  [65AF630E]
    Track  2  accurately ripped (confidence 16)  [F05681C9]
    Track  3  accurately ripped (confidence 16)  [888A1C99]
    Track  4  accurately ripped (confidence 16)  [175964F2]
    Track  5  accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [5CD6C82D]
    Track  6  accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [BAF462E7]
    Track  7  accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [88D8A2DA]
    Track  8  accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [FC723D69]
    Track  9  accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [F81A1CF8]
    Track 10  accurately ripped (confidence 16)  [18B75864]
    Track 11  accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [8C179106]
    Track 12  accurately ripped (confidence 16)  [7CE59B5A]
    Track 13  accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [0EA54AA9]
    Track 14  accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [4BB6E6C2]
    Track 15  accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [02F9F238]
    Track 16  accurately ripped (confidence 14)  [9CCEC591]
    Track 17  accurately ripped (confidence 15)  [6B94DCAD]
    
    All tracks accurately ripped
    
    End of status report
    
     
  20. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    Glad I got this years ago before amazon went weird.
     
  21. hh22359

    hh22359 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    Here are the CUE Tool peaks for my Dec 2016 Amazon Germany copy (matches the visual details from above re. booklet, CD print etc).:

    Track Peak [ CRC32 ] [W/O NULL] [ LOG ]
    -- 96,0 [DF2D2624] [3C0F39AE]
    01 89,8 [3D36950F] [D020FEC1] CRC32
    02 52,4 [E5864FA7] [AF25A957] CRC32
    03 96,0 [CFFB3D11] [9DA4387F] CRC32
    04 94,0 [D8B4CFF8] [26EA9DA8] CRC32
    05 57,1 [EA7F17B9] [F7D5EBBA] CRC32
    06 90,9 [DEC3B93F] [04666682] CRC32
    07 60,7 [717E6C11] [E9E3F040] CRC32
    08 85,5 [661D5FEB] [F21E240B] CRC32
    09 93,3 [B4983598] [12994484] CRC32
    10 76,0 [00CC6BFB] [C438A090] CRC32
    11 74,4 [6A05A55A] [CFFFC5DD] CRC32
    12 91,1 [78704AF3] [2F225DB5] CRC32
    13 80,1 [247F720E] [84C1FBC4] CRC32
    14 92,7 [01D504B0] [B39BD441] CRC32
    15 93,3 [48617661] [D7B06AD4] CRC32
    16 68,5 [FA6A363E] [56EE4126] CRC32
    17 85,8 [0CFF29FA] [A181CFC4] CRC32


    The peaks differ slightly from those posted by Ham Sandwich. The DR values are the same as published at Album details - Dynamic Range Database , but again vary slightly when looking at details (peaks).

    foobar2000 1.3.10 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
    log date: 2017-03-23 15:58:28

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Analyzed: Ella Fitzgerald / Clap Hands Here Comes Charlie!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    DR Peak RMS Duration Track
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR11 -0.93 dB -15.02 dB 4:11 01-A Night in Tunisia
    DR9 -5.61 dB -21.97 dB 3:39 02-You're My Thrill
    DR11 -0.35 dB -15.58 dB 3:20 03-My Reverie
    DR12 -0.53 dB -15.96 dB 3:21 04-Stella by Starlight
    DR11 -4.86 dB -20.84 dB 3:32 05-'Round Midnight
    DR12 -0.82 dB -15.75 dB 3:36 06-Jersey Bounce
    DR11 -4.33 dB -19.76 dB 3:49 07-Signing Off
    DR11 -1.36 dB -15.20 dB 4:17 08-Cry Me a River
    DR11 -0.60 dB -17.19 dB 2:18 09-This Year's Kisses
    DR11 -2.38 dB -18.09 dB 4:21 10-Good Morning Heartache
    DR11 -2.56 dB -17.80 dB 2:46 11-(I Was) Born to Be Blue
    DR11 -0.80 dB -14.86 dB 2:46 12-Clap Hands, Here Comes Charlie!
    DR11 -1.92 dB -18.84 dB 6:17 13-Spring Can Really Hang You Up the Most
    DR11 -0.65 dB -14.94 dB 2:31 14-Music Goes 'Round and Around
    DR10 -0.60 dB -14.53 dB 2:16 15-The One I Love Belongs to Somebody Else
    DR11 -3.28 dB -18.61 dB 3:45 16-I Got a Guy
    DR12 -1.33 dB -15.50 dB 2:44 17-This Could Be the Start of Something Big
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Number of tracks: 17
    Official DR value: DR11

    Samplerate: 44100 Hz
    Channels: 2
    Bits per sample: 16
    Bitrate: 946 kbps
    Codec: FLAC
    ================================================================================
     
  22. fredhammersmith

    fredhammersmith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    Hi.
    I was wondering the same thing.
    The DR Database seems to prove that the HDTracks version is not the Drake remastering.
    Drake:
    Album details - Dynamic Range Database
    HD Tracks:
    Album details - Dynamic Range Database

    Ni info on the hires Marino remaster, so I do not know if the HDTracks is, in fact, the same as the SACD.
     
  23. johnaltman

    johnaltman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Alabama
    Can someone link me to the right one?
     
  24. Turmatic

    Turmatic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charleston
    rxcory and johnaltman like this.
  25. johnaltman

    johnaltman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Alabama

Share This Page

molar-endocrine