ELO Flashback 3 CD Box Set and Afterglow Set (Review)

Okay thanks, I'll see if it exists on this press

 

Here's my Secret Messages glitch report:
Initial remaster edition 2001: glitches on "Stranger" and "Train Of Gold" / R'n'R Is King 3:15
Re-do of the remaster edition 2001: glitches on "Stranger" and "Train Of Gold" / R'n'R Is King 3:45
Japan edition of the remaster series: glitches on "Stranger" and "Train Of Gold" / R'n'R Is King 3:45
Early 80's EU Edition: no glitches on "Stranger" and "Train Of Gold" / R'n'R Is King 3:45
Japan CD: no glitches on "Stranger" and "Train Of Gold" / R'n'R Is King 3:17
Japan Vinyl: no glitches on "Stranger" and "Train Of Gold" / R'n'R Is King 3:49
US Vinyl: no glitches on "Stranger" and "Train Of Gold" / R'n'R Is King 3:46
US CD: no glitches on "Stranger" and "Train Of Gold" / R'n'R Is King 3:45

 

Thanks Christian, that confirms my US Jet Allen vinyl press, I didn't hear anything either
Here's a sample of Stranger
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ieeq2g1v5vv9rgg/stranger samp.wav

 

I posted the exact times in my post on prior page. I actually went and dug out the comments from Shard in my ELO Box Set thread on where to look, but I made it easy by posting the exact times above.

 

I guess some might consider this really technical stuff....but I find it fascinating and love getting into this stuff. Thanks so much for this write up. I wish I had all their singles or even these were discussing with regard to this but I don't have them. I'm fixing to record doctor my other SM LP (the non audiophile) and see if the glitches are there and what Rock N Roll Is King looks like.

 

It looks like Christian has already confirmed it above but I just tested my U.S. Secret Messages LP QZ38490, there are no glitches on Stranger or Train of Gold and R 'n' R Is King contains the intro message and the ending message.

Edit: I just noticed on my US LP of SM in the run in it says "mastered by Allen Zentz, L.A. CA

 

Here's a little more information about yet another curious alternate version of the Secret Messages album - the so-called "unmatched" double album acetates sold a few years back for $6,850! Let's start with the tracklisting:

Disc 1 (03/11/83)
A1 - Secret Messages
A2 - Loser Gone Wild
A3 - Bluebird
A4 - Take Me On And On
B1 - Stranger
B2 - No Way Out
B3 - Beatles Forever
B4 - Letter From Spain
B5 - Danger Ahead

So far, so good. This first disc appears to be the real deal - the mythical Secret Messages double album in its original, fully banded acetate form. The seller (Rob Ford, a well-known ELO collector who first bought the set in 1989) made an effort to emphasise that Beatles Forever runs to 4:31 in length and Danger Ahead has "a 3 second backwards whisper" for its introduction, which I'm guessing may not be the single album version's "plant a tree" message... why else would he point this out? I've no idea what differences there may be in Beatles Forever to explain the slightly longer duration in comparison with the leaked copies floating around, though it's possible this is the documented alternate version with an extra verse, or perhaps the sources we have are recorded at the slightly wrong speed? As if these small mysteries weren't interesting enough, things get a little bizarre from this point on. Remember how I said the set of acetates sold on eBay were unmatched? Well, just check out the tracklisting for the second disc:

Disc 2 (03/04/83)
C1 - Train Of Gold
C2 - Danger Ahead
C3 - Endless Lies
C4 - Hello My Old Friend
D1 - Four Little Diamonds
D2 - Buildings Have Eyes
D3 - Time After Time
D4 - After All
D5 - Rock And Roll Is King

I told you this was where the story gets interesting! Apart from Danger Ahead appearing yet again (in a supposedly exclusive alternate mix), Mandalay is nowhere to be found. Also, based on the earlier pressing date for this disc, I suspect Jeff Lynne had yet to finalise the sequencing and was still playing around with song placements. Curiously, the short mix of After All included on this acetate is timed at 37 seconds, with Hello My Old Friend described as featuring "a 3 second wind intro." On the other hand, it's possible that many of these tracks were placed in the wrong order because someone was simply cutting test acetates of the finished songs - but NOT the correct tracklisting - to check their overall sound quality.

Then again, if this was the case, where is Mandalay, and why is Hello My Old Friend only 7:47 in length? I'm taking a wild guess here, but this particular edit may be similar to the Afterglow version, only with the opening message yet to be removed using a simple fade-in. At the very best, it's safe to say the "welcome to the show" tag is absent, though where else could it go? Well, we know this section was eventually recycled for the ending of Rock And Roll Is King... maybe it was already put there to test the idea of this song closing the whole album instead? Jeff had already closed Discovery and Time with rockers, so perhaps he was testing the water to try this again, just as he did on the eventual single album version of Secret Messages then one last time on Balance Of Power?

However, such claims are impossible to verify unless we know the exact mix of Rock And Roll Is King that was used, plus there's no description of how long the introduction is to Four Little Diamonds, as we know of at least three variations on this (with the single edit missing the "soundcheck" part entirely). Despite comments from no less than Rob Caiger on the subject, I'm still not entirely convinced that only two sets of acetates were pressed of the Secret Messages double album, as this particular configuration clearly isn't complete. I'd be willing to bet the second disc was also cut on 03/11/83 with the following confirmed final tracklisting, and this would be required to make a proper matched set:

C1 - Four Little Diamonds
C2 - Train Of Gold
C3 - Endless Lies
C4 - Buildings Have Eyes
C5 - Rock And Roll Is King
D1 - Mandalay
D2 - Time After Time
D3 - After All
D4 - Hello My Old Friend

As for whether there's an early variation on the first disc also locked away somewhere, I'm not sure of that. We've been told that at least one set of the full double album acetates was actually a triple disc set, with the third containing alternate mixes and potential single edits. Danger Ahead features in a different form, while Hello My Old Friend is clearly missing something. Yet, there's no sign of Mandalay or the longer b-side version of After All, which I would have assumed would feature on such an "odds and sods" extra disc. Additionally, if the first disc is the genuine final assembly, Beatles Forever must therefore be the same mix we've all heard from the two leaked sources, meaning that the reported longer version with an extra verse still remains at large.

To add one last unanswered question into the already overflowing pot, the second disc mix of Danger Ahead is described as being the "standard acetate version," suggesting this as opposed to the first disc's treatment is definitive. Alternatively, perhaps it's just a clean mix intended for single release, since it's already been confirmed that the first disc version has the finished album introduction message. Confused? You should be! In conclusion, there's most likely only one real set of matched acetates, and I wouldn't be surprised if these are with either Rob Caiger or Jeff Lynne himself, though I'm more inclined to side with the former due to his playing of tracks from these - including Beatles Forever - at fan conventions in the past.

By the way, it should be noted that just like the eventual single disc version of Secret Messages, all of these early double album test acetates were cut by Allen Zentz in Los Angeles. I would have posted links to a few a tantalising shots from the original auction showing the labels for the unmatched discs, but for some reason these haven't been available online in quite some time. Fortunately, not all is lost - here's the original Face The Music website's article on Secret Messages, which is still present on its server yet impossible to be accessed directly:

http://www.ftmusic.com/discography/elo/secret/

P.S. The pages for Eldorado, Discovery and Time were also made unabailable long ago, supposedly in preparation for expanded editions of these albums that would bring their quality of bonus material to the same level as more recent ELO remasters. Sadly, with the Classic Albums Collection now regarded a definitive boxed set of these reissues, we'll probably have to wait until the next remastering campaign for any further extra content (if this ever happens in the first place), though I doubt this will happen if Jeff personally keeps blocking the release of known outtakes such as the two reported Face The Music era b-sides, ELO's full-length version of Indian Queen, Supersonic or Beatles Forever... never mind A Matter Of Fact, the documented alternate mixes of Calling America, various tracks compiled on CDR acetates as the Trojan Tapes Sessions, The Garden Rehearsals and a long-overdue digital issue for Xanadu b-side Drum Dreams, plus all the circulating early mixes/demos from that soundtrack project!

 

That's weird....The track listings on FTM website shows Hello My Old Friend at 8:37 and then welcome to the show as track 19 which would make it longer than 8:37 when combining these together.

I came up with Hello My Old Friend at 8:27 and that included the welcome to the show ending. So how come I came up short?

 

OK, lets get to the bottom of this......how does FLASHBACK sound compared to STRANGE MAGIC? Now I will admit though, that the 2001-2007 remasters actually tops SM, as the audio is more upfront and really mastered beautifully, but for a 1995 comp, especially one following the travesty of AFTERGLOW, SM still has a unique, very sharp audio quality to it, but yeah, it doesn't sound like today's remastered CDs from 2000 on.

FLASHBACK is the one ELO comp/box that I don't own (since I have AG, SM, ALL OVER THE WORLD and TICKET TO THE MOON), but I'm curious where it fits in sound-wise with all the rest?

Also, would anyone know of the original U.S. 2000 FLASHBACK box sounds a little different compared to the 2011 U.K. release? It is possible there could be subtle differences.

 

Incredible...I never knew about this Live At The BBC Eagles Records 2-CD set? I knew about the Live In Winterland '76 (which I own) and the Live At Wembley (horrible sounding CD), but didn't know there was a 3rd Eagles Record CD. Was this released in the U.S. at the time and does it sound like the WINTERLAND CD (awesome), or does it sound like WEMBLEY (hideous)?

 

Strange Magic was mastered hot? What are you referring to specifically?

 

What's your Hello coming up as? Mines 7:51

 

Actually, you might still have the liner notes for AFTERGLOW afterall...check your STRANGE MAGIC booklet, as it is an edited version of the AG booklet and I believe it mentions some of the AG tracks that aren't even on SM!

 

Too much treble.

 

Wow this thread is timely.. I've spent the past week falling in love with ELO. Of course I have always loved Don't Bring Me Down (my fave musical period), and never paid any attention to ELO otherwise but now have been surprised how many other songs I know and love. After sampling albums on iTunes I've been contemplating the Classics Albums set, for now I have picked up the double Essentials disc and grabbed a half dozen album tracks from iTunes. I don't want to buy too many CDs, I'm primarily a vinyl guy so I will be looking for sealed originals now. With so much cool info in this thread tho.. looks like I will have to also acquire Afterglow and Flashback. Song4U, I will check out your other thread as well. By the way, my absolute fave track so far is Stranger.

 

Yes, Flashback is a must and Afterglow for the bonus unreleased tracks. If you see my other thread on the albums box set, I also mentioned Stranger is a very favorite of mine as well. Great info on that thread as well!!

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...-11-cd-box-set-album-by-album-reviews.330998/

 

I don't think it was released in the US, only Europe.
It sounds pretty awesome, maybe not Winterland awesome but pretty awesome all the same.
I have a feeling that the BBC Sessions disc is also on Eagle but it's not really that great.

 

I also have that ELO ESSENTIALS 2-CD set, but unfortunately, it's not the best sounding ELO comp, as it appears to be pretty compressed and loud. If I remember, it was not mastered by Joseph P., who did the spectacular sounding 2001-2007 reissues, but by someone else, and I actually don't play this comp anymore because of its audio.

If you are a casual fan it will still be a good comp, but if audio is important to you, then FLASHBACK or the ALL OVER THE WORLD (2005) and TICKET TO THE MOON Vol.2 (2007) comps are much better sound quality wise, especially the '05 and '07 comps which were mastered by Joseph P.

 

I haven't checked this in a while, but the "welcome to the show" segment played forwards (as heard at the end of Rock And Roll Is King) is shorter by a few seconds compared with its reversed counterpart, which opens the album. If someone was to use this version instead - assuming a clean source was available without the opening drum fills to Secret Messages - then I reckon the complete track length of Hello My Old Friend would indeed be closer to 8:37 as opposed to being ten seconds shorter. Also, don't forget that the opening chord was originally longer than on the Afterglow boxed set due to a fade-in being applied there, presumably to hide the "thank you for listening" message that originally served as a bridge between After All and this song. Just like the opening segment, the album's outro was never banded separately... I think Rob Caiger was simply pointing this out as a theoretical 19th track to emphasise that the Afterglow mix of Hello My Old Friend was not the full song as intended back when Secret Messages was still scheduled to span four sides.

 

That makes sense....it's nice of Rob to give us this little clue.
It still bothers me that on my half-speed LP of SM that the ending welcome to the show is cut off from Rock N Roll Is King especially since it's on my UK CD from the box set. I may have to add that ending to my ripped version of the half speed, it feels empty without it even though it doesn't match to the 2 LP set, I feel at least the half-speed should match my UK remaster CD.