ELO in RRHOF: now what?

Regarding the guitar part on Strange Magic, my understanding is that Kelly did indeed come up with the initial suggestion, though it was definitely played by Richard, who also provided the similar jazz runs on Shangri-La from A New World Record. Without saying too much at this point, there is considerable precedent in the ELO story of musicians being cheated out of potential royalties. For example, it's believed that a major factor in Steve Woolam taking his own life was the core members refusing to financially acknowledge his string arrangements on their first album, while the only reason Kelly didn't continue with his lawsuit (despite having a solid case) is because part of the settlement he made with Jeff was for him to drop any further planned action. More recently, Jeff referring to Bev as simply "the drummer" around the time he became the sole owner of the rights to the ELO name is proof of how little the others mattered, with perhaps the lone exception of Richard. Even then, it seems as if Jeff was perfectly capable of reproducing virtually everything Richard originally would have done on the Mr. Blue Sky remake project. Whether it's a result of his own skills diminishing, confidence being lost from years of relative inactivity or simply being made to have less of a demanding role, it's heartbreaking to see Richard now mostly stuck behind the same piano and occasionally warming up a vocoder... Can someone please give him back at least his trusty Wurlitzer Electric Piano, if not a full bank of keyboards as well? In my opinion, there's a real talent wasting away on the stage, although I suppose it's possible Richard's just happy to still be remembered at all, especially since Jeff's clearly no longer willing to let anyone else join him in the studio!

 

Richard didn't play on Alone in the Universe. I think he was only on one song on Zoom as well.

 

Just demonstrates to me very clearly that MBS is not as good on his own in the studio as he thinks he is. He needs the extra talent to fire him up. Let's face it, Zoom and AITU are not a patch on even Balance of Power.
It was great to have ELO back live in some form though.

 

I've always read that it was Richard's guitar solo, which is a separate issue than the guitar sound.

 

I'm in absolute agreement, ShardEnder. Richard should be more prominent on stage now, with more equipment than the simple piano and vocoder. That disappointment is on par with what happened with Kelly, Bev, Dave Morgan, plus the string section and Lou. Of course, seeing the ELO photo of only Jeff on the RRHOF website confirms it to me too.

 

Have to say that you might be treading on thin ice suggesting that someone killed themselves because of a lack financial acknowledgement unless you've got some decent evidence. And I don't understand why someone would drop a court case if they (and their solicitor) felt that they had a solid case. As I've said earlier, songwriting credits are a strange thing and perhaps the legal bods and Kelly thought that £300k might be the best he could possibly hope for given it was sh!t or bust I guess. (Is £300k correct, I'm sure I've read somewhere it was)

I agree with you about Richard, although to be honest, I'm not too worried about the live setting, but God, how I wish he was involved in the studio. The songs from AITU would have been completely different arrangements with Richard's involvement (and he probably could have played the drums better than JL as well !)

 

When speaking of the guitar sound on "Strange Magic" couldn't that be referring to the heavily flanged guitar in the choruses rather than the interesting guitar figure/solo played by Richard?

Nevertheless... ELO fans know who played on various albums and the talents they brought to the group. Personally I'm a huge fan of On The Third Day which was certainly propelled by the talents of Mike Edwards for instance (a player that I haven't seen mentioned in the above gripes much). Ok so we have our personal favorites and all of that. But the fact is that the project hinged on the talents of Jeff Lynne. His songs. His singing. His concepts. His guitar playing. His production. To gripe about the contributions made by other members of the group not being recognized enough by the world at large just seems like bitterness.

ELO currently with Jeff Lynne has played essentially a couple handfuls of shows in the last few years. Richard Tandy is involved and seems like a person who Jeff certainly enjoys playing with. But prior to this last bunch of shows it had been decades since ELO were a live group. To think that suddenly you'd call up people who you played with 30 years ago who you have had no musical connection with since to play music including new music that those people had no involvement in seems like wishful fan thinking at best.

Jeff currently likes to work alone. In the old days he needed a group to record with. It was a necessity due to the limits of recording as much as anything. Plus he needed to tour with them as a necessity of the music business. But even in the old days he seemed to have a preference for working alone as much as possible. It's not surprising then that he would now.

There isn't an artist with a long career who didn't have albums or periods where they worked with certain people who fans will fondly remember and wish they were still involved. That's cool. I have those myself. I'd love Paul McCartney to do something with Denny Laine again. But it's unrealistic to expect it. And these days we actually have bands out there touring who have almost no original members... or even more critical... they don't have the original singer or songwriter who was the reason they were popular in the first place. And I get it. People need work. People want to connect with fans. That's all cool and if fans accept it... or casual fans don't even notice it... fine. Even better if the main force of the original band gives their blessing.

The Hall of Fame is basically an industry recognition for a long career or an especially influential period or whatever. The fact that Mike Edwards isn't being inducted with Jeff Lynne doesn't make his work on On The Third Day any less amazing. It doesn't do anything at all except to put ELO back in the spotlight and to give Jeff recognition and bonus... long time collaborator Richard Tandy is getting in as well... in addition to Bev. And Roy gets in too... which is sort of cool considering the Move or his solo stuff is a long shot to get in by itself.

I don't really see the need to stir up controversy or suggest nefarious actions or malicious intent at a time when the unlikely has happened. ELO is being inducted in the Hall of Fame.

 

A lot of this information about Steve Woolam's final months and prior financial situation was exclusively revealed for the first time just last year when the webmaster of a Danish fan site managed to contact his nephew, who didn't hold back in giving a rather bleak opinion about how little ELO's core members regarded their eventual revolving door of string players in particular:

Steve Woolam

 

Richard's electric piano overdub on Alright from Zoom is hardly worth mentioning, as it could have been played by virtually anyone... His last really notable contributions were made during the Armchair Theatre sessions, and I really wish he'd pursued more of a solo career outside Earthrise (which is technically Dave Morgan's album) or the little-known subsequent R&D/Tandy Morgan Band efforts.

 

That's not fact it's opinion. Put that in print distribute it and see what sort of response it gets from the lawyers. I wonder if RW/JLs management teams are aware of it's presence on the net currently. JLs team especially dont seem to like stuff in the public domain do they. Obviously it's a different matter if there's evidence by way of demos, correspondence, studio details etc confirming what Steve's nephew has said but without it, it's little more than a soggy lump of quiche.

 

Man... I don't know what to believe here. I love the Move and ELO with all my heart and always admired Jeff Lynne for his talents. It would have been so sweet to see Bevan, Lynne and Wood at the Rock Hall, being inducted by Cheap Trick or Rundgren or even younger acts who looked to them for inspiration. They aren't getting any younger. There's probably much, much more to the picture. But for us fans we would just like to see them together, embracing and acknowledging the vastness of their catalog and its impact on so many people. Too bad that will not take place.

In any case we still have the music. Whatever facts may lie behind it, it's still a sweet, sweet ride all the way from Night of Fear to When I Was a Boy, criss-crossing many bands, styles and sounds.

 

I rather think the RnR HoF is a private business, that makes money by selling tickets, to get people to visit their museum of artifacts. They induct artists that they hope will result in more ticket sales. That would explain the diversity of non-rock artists who get in vs. rock artists who have not yet gotten in...

 

The reason Steve's nephew kept calling out Roy Wood in particular is because he of all ELO's former members knows exactly what happened behind the scenes during the making of the group's first album (as a victim himself in a very different way), yet won't speak about this in public due to how quickly Jeff's team would indeed shoot down anything that challenges the "Mr. Blue Sky" persona they've spent the last few years building up. For the record, I've no intention of denying Jeff the right to bask in the glow of his many achievements because he's clearly earned a place in popular music history as one of the most successful one-man acts there is (despite many fans believing ELO was ever a traditional democratic outfit), but I feel the other contributors at least deserve to be credited, if not provided long overdue financial rewards for their efforts.

More than anything, I'd like to think the goal of my project is to show generations of new fans wanting to learn more about ELO that even if they weren't always creative equals, the people responsible for this fine body of work did once share close friendships that were ultimately torn apart by the business itself, which has also damaged Jeff's personal legacy - as a direct result of Don Arden's management choices and lack of transparency, we may never truly know just how many units he shifted with ELO over the years. Having survived controversies that threatened to derail their ascent, ELO as a band ended 1978 a major force on the world stage, and Jeff going from struggling to fill venues on the cancelled Zoom Tour to playing Wembley Stadium later this year will give my book a positive conclusion for undoubtedly its single most deserving subject.

 

I don't think the inductions are a way to sell tickets to their location in Cleveland. I really think it's basically an industry award. That's kind of what Chris Frantz essay about it more or less said. I think the museum in Cleveland is awesome and the foundation does good stuff for music education as well.

 

Roll Over Beethoven seems like a natural fit given Berry's death.

But I'd expect Do Ya rather than anything from ELO I if they are going to reflect the Wood connection.

 

So are you suggesting that you know a real story to why Roy Wood left, something more substantial than the fuzzy "seemed to be the right thing to do" story that's been retold (and not disputed) for the past 45 years?

 

Roy's departure from ELO may not fit within the period I'm covering in my book, though it's still very much something I've been researching as perhaps the most significant - if not earliest - example of how strained the professional relationship between members in this group typically became. Since this isn't something I'll be writing about great length for my project, I should warn you to expect a very lengthy response to your question...

There's plenty of evidence to suggest that both Jeff and Roy had a mutual appreciation, yet they didn't ever collaborate in the traditional sense while part of The Move. A large reason Jeff finally accepted the offer to join this band in the first place is because he wanted to continue on with his own vision, which he didn't feel was possible in The Idle Race because they didn't have the levels of success required to fund his ambitions. By contrast, Roy was already established as a writer of hits and was openly talking of launching a project that ticked similar enough boxes for Jeff that both agreed it was worth becoming joint partners in this venture, giving Bev equal status so they didn't have to credit him with anything else, as had occurred within The Move on a few instances. This way, the plan was that all three would enjoy the same financial rewards from ELO, but it didn't take long for such diplomacy to be challenged.

The first real division took place when Roy started receiving most of the attention for masterminding ELO, and while this is true to an extent, it was Jeff who penned their only notable early single, 10538 Overture. According to everyone I've seen quotes from, this song was the closest Jeff and Roy came to a true collaboration, the latter's cello overdubs helping to set the musical foundation of ELO's sound. As you're probably aware, almost all of ELO's debut album was recorded during the same sessions as the final material contractually obliged to be released as The Move, and it's only because of that group's continuing popularity that their other project was able to be funded. Indeed, many tracks from The Electric Light Orchestra (AKA No Answer) were stored on the same tape reels as later Move songs, with the loose rule being that anything with strings was kept for ELO while everything else went out as The Move. The reality is that there was virtually no difference between the personnel of these two groups, so ELO revisiting Do Ya years later seems more an example of this particular song being assigned to the wrong band originally.

Now, on the subject of the musicians involved with The Move and ELO while both were active, Richard Tandy's name was nowhere to be seen until a little while later, yet he was quite visibly present in live performances. From what I've been able to find out, Jeff in particular knew how valuable Richard was, promising him more of an equal credit as part of the core studio ELO line-up as well once he began restructuring in the wake of Roy leaving, though I'll get to this later. Another early contributor whose input wasn't properly acknowledged is Steve Woolam, who'd often find himself working between different rooms in the studio. Having witnessed The Beatles working on their self-titled LP in 1968, it was somewhat ironic that Jeff found himself in a group where he would be operating under similar conditions. Jeff's approach at this point was to record the band members together live before overdubbing strings, while Roy preferred to layer as much as possible himself, including the drums on The Battle Of Marston Moor (July 2nd 1644) when Bev refused to participate in something he described as "appalling" in his 1980 book. Bev also later went on record suggesting that Jeff did very little in The Move, only joining under the condition that Roy pushed on with starting ELO. Further to this, Jeff supposedly resented both the media and general public for looking at ELO as Roy's new vehicle as opposed to the union of two like-minded talents.

Unlike the initial 10538 Overture, much of the first ELO album was recorded with little interaction between the pop-oriented Jeff and more experimental Roy, their simultaneous work as The Move faring only slightly better. Several witnesses including Rick Price and Mike Sheridan described how the friction between Jeff and Roy escalated to such a point Don Arden finally threatened them with physical violence if one didn't walk out on stage first! Once they did begin playing live, Jeff quickly grew tired of having to wait for Roy to change instruments between songs, preferring their shows were over sooner rather than later, and by the end of their initial tour, the two hardly acknowledged each other. Instead of giving everyone some well-needed breathing space, Arden pressured them to immediately begin work on a follow-up, especially as ELO's only real success to date had been a single. Aware of the huge difference in their songwriting approaches on its predecessor, Jeff came up with an idea for the next ELO album that would hopefully repair the damage between himself and Roy, proposing they being work on a concept album to have been entitled The Lost Planet.

During the later stages of their initial tour as ELO, Jeff had written several "boogies" that he believed would fit into the overall story of The Lost Planet, which the group began recording while also filming scenes around examples of modern architecture in London for a science fiction movie called Freedom City, the plan being that music from their first album would serve as the soundtrack to this project, helping shift more copies of their earlier LP and making them a multimedia experience long before they developed more of an engaging live presence through elaborate stage designs, not to mention having stringed instruments you could actually hear thanks to one of the first major purchases by Jet Records being cutting edge Barcus Berry pickups. To my knowledge, the core trio of ELO only shot a handful of mostly improvised lines for their planned cinematic vehicle before it fell apart, the rushes kept in their personal archives with the masters stored at the British Film Institute, where they remain available under restricted access. In other words, this failed endeavour is destined to never see the light of day, though at least The Lost Planet found its way out as part of EMI's First Light reissue series over 30 years later.

Back to May 1972, and unknown to many of his colleagues, partly because of how detached he now was, the songs Roy had been writing in preparation for ELO's second album weren't even meant for this group, but rather another project he was already preparing. With no intention of sticking within the space and time travel themes Jeff was looking for him to adopt, Roy instead began recording demos of Phil Spector pastiches that clearly didn't fit inside the concept of The Lost Planet, maybe hoping these could be held back for a separate project, just as Message From The Country became the last Move album, created while ELO was also busy preparing its own launch. Whatever the case, Roy did little except play the bass on two of Jeff's tracks, both previewed during live shows along with Elaine - a song Roy would soon be taking with him. Already disengaged and upset at being told exactly how to play a bass line one too many times, Roy told Jeff to play it himself, storming out of the studio.

Several days after this heated exchange, Don Arden passed on the news to Bev that Roy had secretly left ELO, taking Hugh McDowell and Bill Hunt with him to form the core of a new band they'd secretly been plotting for weeks. Feeling extremely betrayed, Bev attempted to contact Jeff, who was in the process of moving into a new flat with no phone line. After initially fearing he was the only founding member of ELO left, communication with Jeff was finally established, the remaining pair quickly discovering many of their closest associates had been fully aware of the plans for Wizzard. Roy himself later regretted management not intervening, but of the two co-instigators behind ELO, he enjoyed the higher profile and possessed a far better chance of succeeding on his own, so it was only natural that Don Arden would issue press statements that read more like damage limitation, if not celebrations of the fact he was the manager of yet another potential money-spinner.

As someone who has tried many times over the years to reconnect with Jeff, it similarly doesn't surprise me Roy has been so diplomatic about the circumstances that led to him leaving ELO, especially as he's willing to acknowledge his own ego problems at the time. Bev in particular has also spoken of regrets, mainly at The Move not doing more to seize opportunities in America, with Roy quitting ELO not long after its formation something that felt like another effort to sabotage the chances of its shared personnel. Don Arden might have booked live dates in advance as a way of urging Jeff to overcome Roy's sudden exit and finish The Lost Planet, but he was also throwing greater resources at Wizzard, further reducing the confidence of those who chose to continue on with ELO. One last frustration came when Rick Price then chose to switch loyalties, which prompted Jeff to follow through on his earlier deal with Richard, who he couldn't make a legal shareholder in ELO because of their contract requiring these to be only founding members, explaining why Kelly Groucutt couldn't later gain this status.

Partly as a way of further easing tensions in the studio and also because he wanted ELO's help to launch a solo career, former Move vocalist Carl Wayne entered the scene, recording several tracks that were eventually shelved in favour of him embarking on a reinvention as a cabaret singer. Now in full control of ELO yet unable to complete The Lost Planet to his own satisfaction, Jeff quickly padded the album out with Momma (a track salvaged from the aborted Carl Wayne sessions), the thematically unconnected eleven-minute war epic Kuiama and a lengthy cover of Roll Over Beethoven, the resulting LP issued as simply ELO 2, though it should be noted that the original sleeve design by Hipgnosis was recycled for its UK edition, US buyers receiving a far less potentially offensive alternate cover. Without going into details, if you open up the British gatefold, it's meant to resemble a light bulb emerging from a nebula shaped like an ambiguous part of the human anatomy, one of which is something Jeff also liked to reference a lot in the working titles of his songs during the early-to-mid 1970s for some reason.

With that, I've effectively written a standalone piece on the first great controversy in ELO's history!

 

Fantastic! And that makes so much more sense than than the PR stories that have been repeated for decades.

Thank you!

 

Thanks ShardEnder, that was most interesting...

 

ELO's history certainly isn't boring!

 

The Electric Light Orchestra 2017 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction has now gone way beyond a tragedy, it's a grotesque farce, even Charlie Brown couldn't have screwed this one up like all those involved, I would never pay or go to see it, MAYBE I'll watch only IF their offer is for free.

 

I remember an interview with Don Arden who said that he could never hold a coherent conversation with Jeff as every other word he said would be an expletive.

 

Well at least a class act like legend Roger Daltrey of The Who appreciates Mik Kaminski's talent more than Jeff Lynne did when he was in The Electric Light Orchestra...

 

Cheers for that! And the violin is still blue. I miss Mik.

 

I was just looking on Amazon.co.uk and saw that Electric Dreams (the movie) is out on Blu-ray in June with 'special features TBC'.

Anyone know something?