DCC Archive Elton John Gus Dudgeon

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Douglas, Nov 26, 2001.

  1. Douglas

    Douglas New Member

    Location:
    Melba, Toast
    Are the most recent Elton remasters no-noised and squished or do they sound OK? I understand Gus Dudgeon was involved in the remaster, but that's not always such a good thing. Witness Tony Visconti's handling of the new reissue of Electric Warrior.

    [ November 26, 2001: Message edited by: jlomax ]
     
  2. JPartyka

    JPartyka I Got a Home on High

    Location:
    Scranton, PA
    I'm not sure if No-Noise was the actual tool used, but the most recent Rocket remasters are heavily processed and sound like it. They sound overly compressed and squashed and bright to my ears. The previous editions (on Polydor, I think?) sounded better to me. In the liner notes Dudgeon actually says this technology would have been used at the time of the original recordings if it had existed. Jeez, we can be glad it didn't.

    My favorite Elton John discs though are still the DCC "Greatest Hits" and the three MFSL issues I've heard (Tumbleweed Connection, Honky Chateau, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road).

    By the way, a new "Classic Albums" series video/DVD was just issued on Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. I'm a big fan of this series and this is a good one ...

    [ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Jeff Partyka ]
     
  3. Unknown

    Unknown Guest

    Jeff's right on the money. The only one I heard was GYBR, and I didn't realize how bad it was till I heard the MoFi CD. It is heavily processed, and it has this tendency to just pound you over the head and lose all subtlety and dynamic contrast.

    I sold my copy, and I've sworn off any of the other Rocket remasters based on GYBR.
     
  4. Doug Hess Jr.

    Doug Hess Jr. Active Member

    Location:
    Belpre, Ohio
    And as stated in the previous incarnation of this forum...stay clear of "The Superior Sound of Elton John" where Gus dumped the multi-tracks to digital and remixed everything. Not a bad sounding disc by itself-- if it weren't completely different than the original mixes.
    Dough
     
  5. J Epstein

    J Epstein Member

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Yeah, I have to say I'm not one of the ones who knocks that Superior Sound disc - a case can be made for what they did there, it's an enjoyable disc.

    -j
     
  6. Grant

    Grant Proud Nerd

    Yup, they are messed with. Right in the liner notes of the Elton John remasters Gus Dugeon writes that since the tapes have "softened" up a bit over the years he used a computer with varying methods to "harden" up the sound. Sounds like Sir George Martin's excuse.

    What is it with these British producers?

    To be fair, I like the sound of the remastered Elton John discs. It sounds like he took more care to retain the sound than someone like Astley or martin. They are not quite as natural-sounding as the old MCA discs but they are much better than the absolutley HORRIBLE Polydor pucks.

    Dugeon claims that he obtained only the absolute masters of all the Elton John stuff. That may be true of the album masters but he used the wrong tape of "Philadelphia Freedom". The original US single runs at least 20 seconds longer and sounds smoother. Perhaps MCA still has the tape here in the states. This is one Bill Inglot got right because it exists on Billboard Top Hits: 1975. It may be on the "To Be Continued" box. I have never heard the box so I can't confirm it.

    I must be the only one who did not like DCC's "Greatest Hits". It sounded dull and lifeless to me.

    [ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Grant T. ]
     
  7. joelee

    joelee Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Houston
    The Polydor discs sound the best to my ears. All of them have their strengths and weaknesses but I enjoy the Polydors first and the MCA's second. The Rocket releases are too bright on a high-end system.
     
  8. pigmode

    pigmode Active Member

    Location:
    HNL
    Come on Grant, that is a bit misleading. He said nothing about "hardening" up the sound. I interpreted "softened up" (Dudgeon's quote) to mean the the tape had deteriorated with age. Hence the need/justification for digital enhancement.

    He did, however, write this curiously defensive statement in connection with the digital wizardry he had performed:

    'The effect is purely to "enhance" rather than "colour" the sound.'(his quotes)

    I have Madman and it's not such a bad disc, although he absolutely, positively screwed up the title track which has so much bass distortion as to be unlistenable. Such a flaw is enough to relegate the CD to the novelty pile.
     
  9. Douglas

    Douglas New Member

    Location:
    Melba, Toast
    Grant, what is it that you don't like about the Polydor discs? Joe says they're the best ones in his opinion. I haven't heard them to form one of my own.
     
  10. Grant

    Grant Proud Nerd

    MAN, those were No-noised to DEATH! You can hear the noise pumping all over the place! I always wondered HOW Elton or anyone allowed those Polydor discs out on the market! And, they were very edgy, very grating on the ears. If you still have any I urge you to put them up and listen again!
     
  11. Grant

    Grant Proud Nerd


    I guess I was thinking of Martin's words regarding the Beatles stuff, but, yes, I know that's what Gus Dudgeon meant. The tapes had erased over the years, which is what can happen, and he went about correcting that. If you had read it further you would have seen where I stated that I like the Rocket remasters.

    [ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: Grant T. ]
     
  12. pigmode

    pigmode Active Member

    Location:
    HNL
    Sorry Grant, I didn't catch your wry humour the first time around. Oh well, I thought Dudgeon's strange qoutations were pretty funny too.
     
  13. btomarra

    btomarra Extreme Member

    Location:
    Little Rock, AR
    I apologize for going off the topic a bit, but with all the comments about Gus Dudgeon's remastering, I found and bought the DCC Elton John Greatest Hits. Simply put: WOW!!! Steve does it again. Terrific sound. I never heard Rocket Man sound that good. Kudos, Steve!

    I need all of your audio synapses working. On the last board, someone proposes the Elton John GHV2 for Steve. After listening to this, I really would love that. What was the reply? Is it still a possible release. :D

    [ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: Brian O'Marra ]
     
  14. pigmode

    pigmode Active Member

    Location:
    HNL
    Hey, that's as on-topic as you can get--this is the DCC board. Madman on DCC gold would be a winner.
     
  15. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    GTA, Canada
    I don't think there was a reply, Brian. I think Steve was deluged - and probably still is - with requests. Like completing the CCR stuff.

    But what are the chances that Elton / Gus would agree to that, especially after this current remaster? Nil :( 'cause Steves work will outshine the remasters by a million miles. And they probably know that (think ego problems in England....!).

    Having said that.... why don't you create post so Steve will see it (on the 29th when they get back)? Because maybe there would be some hope to get permission / contract to do an "audiophile" SACD / gold disk combo?

    Whaddya think? ;)
     
  16. btomarra

    btomarra Extreme Member

    Location:
    Little Rock, AR
    Gary,

    I think that's an excellent idea. I'll definitely do that. Thanks so much for the help on this. And I agree with you wholeheartedly on Steve's work outshining all others. I hope he can do it. I'll be proud to put it along side Elton's Greatest Hits (Vol 1) :D
     
  17. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Hyannis Ma
    Steve might be able to say it best, but I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the master tapes. GBYBR has suffered through so, so many climatic changes in sound and re-issuence. I still wish I had my 7 1/4IPS reel of GBYBR from the 70's. The sound on that reel was fantastic.

    Please realize that the current philosphy of mastering is to match what other people's stuff sounds like; not what the master tape should have sounded like (or sounds like now..Eww.. Why on EARTH would you want to listen to it THAT WAY?? hehe). With that being said, I like the Island issue anyway, but the MFSL, albeit dark sounding has caught my eager attention lately more than the Island.

    The sound [on the 7" reel] was a lot closer to the MFSL than the Island, if you're curious, but had its wetter moments in places that the MFSL didn't have. What has appeared on the GH1 that Steve did has exemplified that the right stuff can be done.

    The Polydoor of "Madman" sounds very good. Not sure about the Island. I do own almost all of the Polydoors and they really sounded strong and spacious, albeit a tinge bright (no biggie). I just wish I still had my RTR machiene and that tape, dammit. With what I've heard on that tape, that would be a nice little home mastering job. That was an occasion when I first spooled it, and hit "play", it was perfect, no EQ needed (MHO).

    There are some nastier dropouts on "Burn Down The Mission" on Tumbleweed (Polydoor) which (if memory sevres) was recorded at evil old Trident. Always wanted to ask Steve if he found Tumbleweed's Pt2 master to have nicks or folds in it 'twords the end.

    [ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: Sckott ]
     
  18. Matt

    Matt New Member

    Location:
    Illinois
    BMG is having a clearance sale on Polydor Elton John CD's (making room for the Rocket CD's, from the looks of it). Should I pick these up?
     
  19. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    Canada
    Camarillo,
    Unless you are a home mastering type like Sckott IMHO stick with the DCC version or the MFSL UD1 as they both have a huge sound stage compared with the polydors. :)

    [ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: Dave ]
     
  20. Grant

    Grant Proud Nerd

    The Polydor Cds I had SUCKED big donkey dicks! They were dry and edgy! My ears almost bled! Perhaps it wasn't ALL of the titles, but I just recall being so pissed that I threatened the store to take them back. I couldn't believe that a major label could allow such garbage to be released on an ususpecting public.

    I had the Polydor "Greatest Hits", "Don't Shoot Me...", and "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" and they were all no-noised to death! The noise pumping was horrendous! They were awful. Maybe "Madman" was the only decent one.

    Not to insult anyone but I think that you all who liked the Polydor discs had bad systems or are deaf!

    Skipo the Polydors! If you can find the MCA's used, get them. I maintain that the Rocket CDs are good, not perfect, but good.

    [ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: Grant T. ]

    [ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: Grant T. ]
     
  21. Matt

    Matt New Member

    Location:
    Illinois
    Thanks for the input...it's an official "no" on the Polydors.
     
  22. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Is there perhaps a chance that there are multiple Polydor versions? Seems pretty odd that some people *love* them and some people *hate* them...
     
  23. Grant

    Grant Proud Nerd

    I doubt it, Luke. Elton'e contract with Polydor was brief. He soon resigned with MCA after they came out.

    Think noise reduction gone bad, worse than Jon Astley.
     
  24. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Hyannis Ma
    Yeah. The Polydoors are all the same. I tend to like the Polydoors at just about every title, and the only ones I don't own on PGD are "Empty Sky" and "GBYBR". I didn't find a Polydoor I can't stand. I liked them a lot, and I continued to buy them through a few months time. I wasn't dissapointed, but that's just me.
     
  25. Douglas

    Douglas New Member

    Location:
    Melba, Toast
    Hi Scott! I'm enjoying the Stones.

    OK now I'm thoroughly confused as to what EJ discs to get. Guess I"m going to have to get them all and A/B them myself. Oh, I forgot I'm poor again...
     

Share This Page