Elvis in Concert

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by genesim, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. genesim

    genesim Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    St. Louis
    Being working on a "complete" Elvis collection and notice that the RCA Albums collection is missing Elvis in Concert along with the singles. I working on rectifying that, but at a bit of a loss of how to do this right.

    Are the complete concerts on CD in good quality officially?

    If you had to deal with just the CD release how would you sequence it?

    I am thinking the singles should be separate because of the overdubs.

    Also is Unchained Melody, If You Love Me (Let Me Know) and Little Darlin' different from the Elvis In Concert/Singles (different performances)?
     
  2. Pelvis Ressley

    Pelvis Ressley Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Capac, Michigan
    EIC was not included since it was released posthumously.

    No.

    The Unchained Melody single (PB-11212) was recorded at Rapid City, June 21, 1977, as was the majority of the EIC double album.

    I'm not aware of the other two songs being released as singles. Are you referring to the tracks on Moody Blue? If You Love Me (Let Me Kn0w) was recorded on 4-track at Wings Stadium, Kalamazoo, MI, April 26, 1977. Little Darlin' was recorded two days prior at Crisler Arena, Ann Arbor, MI. Selected tracks from these shows can be found on the Spring Tours '77 FTD.
     
  3. MaestroDavros

    MaestroDavros Active Member

    Location:
    D.C. Metro Area
    Elvis In Concert has long been the "ugly duckling" of the Elvis Presley catalog. It's in a weird position where, despite Elvis having at least minimal involvement in the project, the album proper didn't come out until October 3, 1977 (alongside the TV special), 2 months after Elvis' death, so often when doing career retrospectives, such as The Complete Masters and The RCA Albums Collection, it is usually left out. The album itself is largely a mixed bag, and has gained infamy for its use of overdubs, and more importantly fan comments. In my own personal opinion these are in someways justified; the former since parts of the shows had technical problems (such as dropouts in some cases) and the latter as a sort of record of peoples thoughts on Elvis at the time (June '77) even if some of it is a bit cringe worthy.

    Like pretty much any Elvis concert from late 1974 onwards, the performances are a roller coaster of quality. As is typical, Elvis is completely uninterested in singing his oldies, and essentially runs through them on "autopilot", but then you get brilliant, if a bit over the top compared to years prior, performances like "How Great Thou Art" and "My Way", which prove that when he actually cared about what he was singing, he still had it. By this time Elvis had seemingly become aware of his vocal limitations during the last few years of his life, caused by his poor health (drugs being a factor) resulting in him trying to compensate with the "bellowing" that characterizes performances from this period.

    The album itself has sadly not been remastered (more on this in a moment) by Vic Anesini, or anyone rather, since the late 90's-early 2000's. Apparently the tapes are not in good condition and thus any release would require a lot of restoration work. I have not heard it myself (only the bog standard 1990's US CD release) but it is my understanding that the 1996 Japanese "24-Bit" reissue is the best sounding digital version available, if you can track it down of course.

    Neither of the two concerts that make up the album, Omaha (one of the worst shows of the year) and Rapid City (one of the best of that year) have been released in their entirety. That being said, apparently based on someone "in the know" FTD (the official "fan club" label) have already restored and remastered the original album tapes, and remixed the 2 shows as well. Considering that a stereo version of "Love Me" from the Omaha show quietly made its way onto the now deleted FTD reissue of "This Is Elvis" there might be some truth to this. Apparently, FTD were asked by SONY/Legacy to hold off on a release (maybe for a mainstream release) so those apparently sit on the shelf.

    The singles you mention were originally included on the Moody Blue album, so no need to include them on a comp.

    And yes, those are different performances (Unchained Melody being an exception as noted above), recorded in the spring once it became apparent that there were not enough studio tracks to fill out an entire album.
     
  4. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southwest
    The complete concerts are not officially available. The audio from the underground versions are average (Rapid City) to below average (Omaha). The original album is in print via CD, however, not in upgraded sound.

    Not sure what you mean. Do you want to resequence the album's content? For starters, you should remove the "fan comments" altogether. Other than that, what would be the reason to resequence the album?

    The album also contained overdubbing.

    Are you referring to the versions from "Moody Blue?" If so, both "Unchained Melody" (from Ann Arbor 4/24) and "If You Love Me (Let Me Know)" (from Kalamazoo 4/26) are from spring 1977, whereas the EIC concert versions (including the 1978 "Unchained Melody" single) are from Rapid City. Little Darlin' is not found on EIC (the Moody Blue version is from Ann Arbor 4/24).

    EDIT: Looks like Pelvis Ressley already provided some of this info....
     
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  5. When In Rome

    When In Rome Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    'Elvis in Concert' is still available on CD (in the UK at least). It's probably best to buy it as is and leave it as is for a slice of posterity or a curio of the time. From the crazy overzealous fan comments and the repeated tease of the opening drums to Vernon's heartbreaking message.
    It's not Elvis' best live recordings by any means but it just is what it is and despite it's shortcomings I can't help but feel it did deserve a place in the album collection. I include it in my core collection. Ones mileage may vary, of course...
     
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  6. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southwest
    A couple of things to consider, the Album Collection box set clearly established a narrative that the set's focus was on lifetime albums. Now, arguments have been made that EIC was conceived during Elvis's lifetime and therefore should have been included. However, technically speaking, the album was not released during Elvis' lifetime, and it is also unclear if the EIC soundtrack was commissioned during Elvis' lifetime, or if it was commissioned after his death as a tie-in to the posthumous television broadcast.

    As far as the remastering is concerned, it does appear that the EIC recordings were remastered prior to the Album Collection box set's release (and still unreleased in remastered form), so theoretically, the recordings could have been used. However, it is unclear if the original album has been remastered, or if just the individual Rapid City and Omaha concerts have been remixed and remastered for future use.

    I suspect that when Vic Anesini remastered all of Elvis' master recordings circa 2007, that he did not remaster Elvis In Concert. And when the Complete Masters box set was released a few years later, not only did Sony seem to have a mandate for including only lifetime masters on the main discs (not the bonus discs), but it is conceivable that EIC may not have been in a remastered state for the project. It has been quite some time since I have looked at the Complete Masters set.
     
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  7. genesim

    genesim Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I am going to come back to this thread in a day or so. Right now I am in a renaming project. Here is my thinking to give background on this Elvis in Concert thing.

    My plan is to put all masters in the order of release as opposed to chronological. It is how I did the Beatles and tells a better story.

    One example of why I oppose chrono is having Surrender in the middle of the gospel sessions...uh no. So Singles get their order...albums.... A few exceptions. Love Me Tender was released as a single before the movie. Like the Beatles I call it a "promo" rule. Meaning Hard Days Night was promo single for the album..so the album gets priority. Love Me Tender would sound empty without the lead, so my goal is to give priority to the movie release (not soundtrack release) and put bonus at the end.

    Shake Rattle and Roll and Lawdy Miss Clawdy are stragglers, so I go with EP release which gives Shake priority even though it wasn't the A side. However, I put in terms of how the listener first heard it if they were buying all of Elvis albums as they came out.

    Now here is my exceptions. No remakes/preliminaries/weird takes (yup you heard that right so no double I'll Never Let You Go, Love Letters, Blue Suede Shoes etc), only complete master songs (so no I Shall Be Released Lady Madonna), and no complilation albums (Elvis for Everyone, A Date with Elvis, any Camden).

    The Sun Sessions..a little annoying. Because starting with My Happiness makes sense from the perspective of Elvis being his own "release", but then it can be considered an outtake which makes it all start with Thats All Right. Then I think...do I sequence all the "outtakes" (not released as single) after all the singles or just put all of Sun in chrono as an exception. I am leaning toward My Happiness being an "outtake" along with the rest, still thinking.

    Soundtracks are to be in order of how they came in the film with single/promoted versions taking the place of movie versions (that and I have them in the album set). I generally like single/album versions.

    So now we are back to Moody Blue. First its a compilation, so the live tracks are going to get taken off as the "album". So that leaves re-sequencing Elvis in Concert in some coherent form while treating the singles as a promoted item. I thought Unchained Melody sounded different on Moody Blue than the single version. I will revisit all of this soon.

    Thanks for all the great answers, and I am listening, just bogged down now. The fan comments are probably going to stay. They are part of the legend and the final say on it all. Goofy or not, they are part of the story.

    What bugs me is how the album is sequenced in a way that doesn't sound like a concert? A concert ends with the vamp period.

    As for Elvis in Concert being included. He knew it would be released somehow based on history. Truth be known, that is what did him in. He knew the Elvis train was going no matter how he felt, and I think that is what took a toll. He was working so hard, and it was a force that could not be stopped.

    It is canon as far as I am concerned.

    I will post the list later so someone can correct any dates I have screwed up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  8. When In Rome

    When In Rome Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    Whilst I don't disagree and it's understandable why the 'EIC' recordings will always be the poor cousin to the Elvis' catalogue - that whole 'life-time masters' mandate seems to be just when it suits; as far as I can recall the undubbed 'Tomorrow Night', 'Danny', 'Britches' 'Dominic', 'Signs Of The Zodiac', Something (August 11 1970), the studio version of 'My Way' plus a handful of others (the complete unedited take of 'I Want To Be Free' for one but that's another story. Grrr!) were all released after Elvis' passing, admittedly if they were missing there would have been equal cause for concern but still the point remains, 'EIC' is no more irrelevant than those mentioned. In my humble, of course...
     
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  9. genesim

    genesim Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I am going to keep the Elvis talk on this topic until I come back to moody blue.

    Which was released first. A Fool Such as I as the A Side or I Need Your Love Tonight as the A side?

    I know they are both technically A sides, but just wondering which came first.
     
  10. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southwest
    There was definitely some latitude when it came to implementing the lifetime masters formula.
     
  11. Shawn

    Shawn Forum Resident

    Yep, no Welcome To My World album, for example. I could almost understand its omission if Elvis for Everyone was excluded, but it wasn't.
     
  12. Hamhead

    Hamhead Sinatra promo specialist

    "Having Fun With Elvis On Stage" has the honor of being the "ugly duckling" of the Elvis Presley catalog.
    The one album that RCA erased from their catalog with no reissues whatsoever, at least "Elvis In Concert" had a CD release in the 90's.

    There were a few tracks from "Welcome To My World" that are missing from the Complete Masters box, and missing from the Complete Albums box.
     
  13. Pelvis Ressley

    Pelvis Ressley Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Capac, Michigan
    "Make The World Go Away" - Overdub take 3 is the only track from the original LP that hasn't been issued on CD.

    "Release Me" 2/18/70 MS is on Complete Masters, but not the same mix as Welcome To My World.

    "I Can't Stop Loving You" from the MSG afternoon show has been issued on CD twice, but was not included on either Complete Masters or Complete Albums.

    "Your Cheating Heart" is on both sets in mono. It was rechanneled on Welcome To My World.
     
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  14. DaleClark

    DaleClark Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bexley, Ohio
    WTMW should have been included in the complete albums box set. Pure Gold as well. Especially since the original Camden albums were included
     
  15. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    There are two versions of Welcome To My World CD. The original released in 1992 and the one included in the 20 Original Albums box. I do not remember which one but ONE of these does have the version of Make The World Go Away you mention. That box is worth getting for at least two albums, Elvis For Everyone and Welcome To My World.

    genesim: I do not know why you are omitting the compilation albums as in some instances it could be the first time someone would hear some songs contained and in some instances it is the ONLY way you could hear some songs during his lifetime. If you really want to get nit-picky, often times the single mix differs from the LP mix or even EP mix. This pertains even to mono recordings where sometimes added echo and/or compression was added to either the LP or the 45 version. It is a nightmare keeping up with it all. All the material on For LP Fans Only and A Date With Elvis was first released on 45 single or 45 EP. So they would not need to be included. Many of the Camden albums had material never previously released. Elvis For Everyone had only ONE previously released track. In some cases, like I Want To Be Free, the only ways you can get "as first heard" version in good quality is either buy the original EP or get Jailhouse Rock vol 2 from FTD. If lesser quality is okay, then you can also get it off the 1988 CD or LP Essential Elvis. I could go on, but you get the idea.

    And as a rule a single that would be contained on an LP would come out first (usually) so then you'd have to sequence the single BEFORE the LP and then omit those songs off the LP so the sequencing of the LP would not be "as first heard". Hey, it's your project, do what you want. At least the studio albums typically never included a single. Sometimes singles were lifted after the fact. In the 70s singles were often included however.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  16. genesim

    genesim Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    St. Louis
    It is not that I am not including the material, I am just not keeping it in the hodge podge sequential order of the LP compilation. When I did Yellow Submarine on the Beatles album that went too because it is not a real album. The straggler songs are outtakes from the session never fully realized on an album. That and Yellow Submarine belongs on Revolver.

    Lets take an example. Evis for Everyone has stuff from the 50 and 60's. My remake rule throws out Tomorrow Night, but also puts Ain't That a Love You where it rightfully belongs...as a bonus track on King Creole. The Gold record collections don't exist because I am putting them in the order the singles were released..not the hodgepodge collection that it later became. So goes the Date with Elvis and For LP Fans Only. Hope this clarifies it.

    As for the different mixes. Like you state, most of the time the singles weren't on albums. My rule is if a single was released way after the fact (like Crying in the Chapel), I again treat it like a compilation. It should have been a bonus track on the respective album.

    Don't Leave Me Now I call a preview mix on Loving You. Since it wasn't included in the movie, it is one of the rare examples where the first mix is the one to throw away. The Jailhouse Rock version is the keeper because it went in the movie (actually two versions, but I am obviously keeping the second more enthusiastic version).

    Ask Me and Memphis Tennessee were not finished (rejected as my memory recalls) so I have never bought that they should go on the Lost Album. Matter of fact, I call it an outtake from the It Hurts Me Single release era since it was many months later.

    Hope this clarifies my plan.
     
  17. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Clear as mud.
     
  18. genesim

    genesim Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I edited so I hope it is clearer. I don't see how my order makes less sense than having songs that were released..month...years after the fact?? How does that make sense for listening pleasure?

    Also I think you missed something. First heard only works if it isn't promo for an album.

    For example first heard on Love Me Tender doesn't omit it from the soundtrack because I consider it promo of what is to come (sorta).

    Kind of like the Hard Days Night single for the Beatles not omitting it from the album because it is "promo" of what is to come. In other words LP's usually take ownership EXCEPT something like Steppin' Out of Line which was obviously recorded for Blue Hawaii. I consider that a bonus track for Blue and it makes Pot Luck flow better. Same with I Slipped, I Stumble I Fell on Something for Everybody going back to its proper soundtrack.

    Here is a WORK IN PROGRESS. The only thing that may seem strange is that I am using release dates of movies over soundtrack release dates.

    Note: If something isn't listed it is considered an "outtake" for the date. Example, the left over tracks from Elvis for Everyone that belong on Pot Luck or Something for Everybody are after the sequence of the album as bonus tracks.

     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  19. Orion XXV

    Orion XXV Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    As an Elvis fan, you have to include it...

    It won't be playing regularly, but it is of historical significance to a portion of those who love the King.
     
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  20. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Ask Me and Memphis were rejected in 1963, but the 1964 versions were masters. I guess my confusion comes in where you must reconcile two of your criteria:
    1. Arrange songs as they were first heard. "My plan is to put all masters in the order of release as opposed to chronological" (meaning chronological recording order, I am assuming).
    2. Put songs in their rightful place as it comes to timeline, at least the same relative time period. " However, I put in terms of how the listener first heard it if they were buying all of Elvis albums as they came out."

    Putting Ain't Than Loving You Baby with King Creole has a few problems. 1. That is not where it was first heard. 2. It does not relate to the King Creole sessions, And 3. It was never a master originally. Neither was Your Cheatin' Heart, Crying In The Chapel, and others through the years.

    The Loving You Don't Leave Me Now is a master just as much as the Jailhouse Rock version is. The 1956 Blue Suede Shoes is a master (of course) but so is the version on GI Blues. It seems that you are mixing rules, making exceptions etc. Certainly the chronological aspect of The Complete Masters has it good points and bad points. Surrender in the middle of His Hand In Mine being one you mention (and I agree) as being detrimental to listening pleasure, but quite appropriate as it comes to historical accuracy.

    On the other hand eliminating all compilations and trying to find a good place to put those songs as bonus tracks on non-compilation albums can work in some cases and can be cumbersome in others. It makes sense to take the Viva Las Vegas songs off Camden's Flaming Star and put them on the Viva Las Vegas EP, or Mama off Let's Be Friends on Girls Girls Girls, but where do you put the Live A Little Love A Little songs or Change Of Habit songs from various Camdens? What albums would be appropriate to tag these on as bonus tracks?

    Much of your work has been done for you with the expanded versions of the Debut album, Elvis and Loving You. There are other expanded versions that are quite logical too, such as Elvis Is Back, Something For Everybody and Pot Luck. There are certainly more than a few ways to straighten up the masters in a logical order. (other than The Complete Masters version). The 60 CD box missed the mark, but it would not take much to modify it in such a manner where it could be much more satisfying.

    It may not be a bad idea to create new compilations in some cases. For example, your singles compilations could incorporate some non single strays, or out of place single releases such as Ain't That Loving You Baby, Your Cheatin' Heart, When It Rains-It Really Pours etc, in such a way as to NOT sully the original non-compilation albums.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  21. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southwest
    The wonderful remake of "Tomorrow Night" from "Elvis For Everyone!" should never be "thrown out."
     
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  22. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I agree, talk about making a silk purse from a sow's ear! If only the post June 1970 overdubs had this aesthetic rather than the pedestrian ones from our pal Felton!
     
  23. genesim

    genesim Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I consider Ain't That Loving You Baby an outtake from the singles era (so thus it is placed after those singles) just after King Creole. I was simplifying here. I hope this clarifies.

    By the way Crying, Ain't that Loving You, and Cheatin' are all finished songs and they are masters from RCA (I don't include Fool Fool and other radio demos). They obviously saw release so thus must be included...in their proper spot.

    But it is also a repeat. I want to listen to this in an enjoyable state. Multiple versions of the same song are annoying, not matter how good they are. The only exception is with live albums which is a complete statement.

    Don't Leave Me Now doesn't belong on a Loving You soundtrack because it is isn't in the movie. I know it is an "album", but at best I look at it as another long line of compilations. My Loving You is a soundtrack just like the rest of them. The exception I make is that it is an idealized soundtrack because it includes the hit versions as opposed to the movie version. Same concept, just a little different, but most importantly, not a repeated song and using a superior version because it was the hit version.

    No Blue Suede shoes is a gimmick remake that is inferior to the original, and not a hit. That is an easy one to remove.

    If it was about historical accuracy I would stick to chrono. Obviously this is about listening pleasure and somewhat historical accuracy to what people first listened to as well. My version actually improves on how it should have been released to begin with. Multiple versions of the same songs are sloppy.

    Kissin' Cousins #2 is a new song. Girls Girls Girls finale is not. It is a variation of the first song. Gots to go. I'm A Roustabout new song so it stays.

    Live a Little and Change and Follow That Dream and Flaming Star are soundtracks. Thus though they are small ones, they are still just that.

    So what you have is Live a Little in chrono order as the songs were played in the movie. Anything cut out of movie is a bonus track in chrono of when it was recorded.

    A lot of the work has been done, but this is about doing it right. The bonus tracks could have been done so much better, which is what I am trying to do. I have a two prong order. Albums and Singles first...and leftovers go to "outtakes" as bonus.

    Examples of deviation. Peace in the Valley is an EP of new material...so it is like a mini album. Just for You I consider a compilation because it is not all new material. So Shake Rattle and Roll and Lawdy are outtakes to the first album...which is also like a compilation because I have deleted all overdubbed leftovers from Sun. The reason I keep it is as kinda like an album is because that first album is so famous. That and it is also padded out by the singles as I have illustrated.

    I apologize, but I still fail to see where I put any of those songs in the wrong place. Ain't That Love You goes after the Gold records volume 2 singles (sort of, but not all of them). When It Rains has one version and that is back at Sun where it belongs. A remake stands out like a sore thumb to me. Tomorrow Night is another such example. No sows ear for me. Undubbed and simple is how I like to hear it back on Sun.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  24. Duke90

    Duke90 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    WI, USA
    Not a fan of the final years, but from what i read, The Japanese CD version form the late 80's (correct me if im wrong) is the best sounding version.
     
  25. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Well all of the Sun songs other than the 10 singles sides and Tryin' To Get To You (planned as a future single) are outtakes! It is true that the 1964 masters of Ask Me, Memphis and It Hurts Me would not have ended up on For The Asking because they were recorded to be singles.
     

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