Embarking on a Thorens TD 165 Restoration

Here is the thrust bearing install I did on the motor to make it quieter:

 

Nice plinthe. I've been wanting to make one. Just waiting to meet someone who has all the tools that I can borrow.

 

Where did you get the thrust bearing?

Have you looked into damping the subplatter?

 

Did you notice any difference I'm sound quality with the new plinth?

 

Here is where I got the thrust bearing:
Turntable Motor Thrust Bearing (Thorens) - SRM/TECH »

Was cheaper than Vinyl Nirvana as the US Dollar to Canadian Rate is horrendous. Am considering damping the platter but was more interested in dealing with the more overt issues than perceived ones....
Thrust bearing seems to be doing a good job but still have some tweaking to do....

 

Not really, then again my ears are 55 years old and being a retired navy diver (having gone through massive pressure changes to my ears over the years) I doubt my hearing is good enough to hear anything short of a good thunderclap these days ;-)

 

Check here for lots of good info and manuals. I just got a Thorens TD-126 MKII and need to adjust the suspension and the anti-skating.

Thorens Manuals - Vinyl Engine »

 

Here is the dust cover I ordered - i like it because it was different than all the rest:
Acrylic Dust cover Tonearm protector for Thorens TD160/ 165/145/166 and others »

And this is the name plate I ordered from Australia:
Thorens Badge for all vintage Thorens custom Plinth Stainless steel SS »

If I don't like it I will order this:
3D Logo large for Thorens Turntable made of stainless steel »

 

Thanks - I am a member under a different username (navydiver was taken). Vinyl Nirvana at: AR Turntable Vinyl Nirvana Acoustic Research Merrill Thorens For Sale »
is probably the biggest resource around for old Thorens Turntables though....

 

Dave does some beautiful work! I had contacted him about my TD-126, but he doesn't work on them anymore.

 

I had considered going to him nut as I think I mentioned previously, doing anything in the US with the current exchange rate is just flushing cash down the toilet. Maybe one day when we get back to parity as it seems to follow cycles...

 

Joel is the man to listen to. Google the analogue department. This brings up the Thorens Dept.
All you could ever want to know is there.some little tips that i learnt after many hours of setting up.
Oil. Thorens did reccommend a certain oil for their turntables. To be safe i bought Liquid Bearings on Ebay from someone in the USA.
The correct length of the drive belt when folded in half is 165 mm,
This is very important. I spend ages setting up my suspension. The belt i purchased was 160.
2 things here. Too tight will transmit more noise, secondly too tight will pull armboard out of square thus affecting the bounce!
Suspension. Remove base. Fit over wall mounted shelf(2 pieces of timber to span the width will suffice) or bake bean tins( or similiar)
It has to be level. Unscrew nuts(6mm x1.5 pitch) on one spring at a time. Remove springs and rubbers. Dust in talc before refitting a dab of paint on spring adlacent to the "spine(where the bottom of spring is folded into centre
Refit. Place painted end in line with main bearing but facing away from it on front left spring.
Other 2 fit opposite of front/left as regards paint mark.
I set gap between platter and base at 5mm. Officially its 6mm. MORE Important! This setting is to include mat and record. If you use a record clamp FIT IT as well before setting gap.
Now i fit extra nuts and lock them, to ensure the nuts cannot drift!
WITH motor/belt on and running! Tap each point of platter above springs. Each point should move up and down Very easily . I start with front left to increase bounce twist spring(ie rotate it) till it bounced15/20 times.
By rotating springs you also square armboard.there should be no sideways movement, only up and down. Rotating springs will achieve this.
With platter/motor running. When tapped near spindle platter/arm board should bounce 15-20 times.(with record fitted)
The paint gives you a reference point which believe me saves time.
Record these setting!
I usually leave the base off a few days incase it drifts.the talc just makes it easy to rotate springs.

 

When you say rotate springs do you mean like you rotate car wheels and swap the springs around between mount locations or do you mean rotate in place? I am also not getting what you mean by painting adjacent to the "Spine" - would be glorious if someone had a video or a sequence of photos for this process for ham-fisted folks like me ;-)
Will try to decode the above and figure things out as best I can. I have been to the Thorens Analog site at: Thorens Dept. » many times to glean tidbits of setup info but all the technical fuss to tweak these things is almost enough to drive a sane person back to digital. Getting underneath these things is no easy feat either especially after you tweaked the hell out of them from many awkward positions only to have to button it all back up and put the bottom back on only to find you have knocked it out of kilter gain re-assembling...
I know that a sprung TT should be on a completely rigid base decoupled from the floor joists and rock solid isolation from floor vibration but will never happen in my wife's house so all I can do is what I can do. I am waiting for a record clamp (ordered a while ago) before I even start in on dialing in the sprung component in a stand top configuration (bad I know). I did also originally try a generic belt I ordered and got within days (as the old one was shot) but also ordered a Thakker from Germany which took much much longer to arrive. What a night and day difference! The crappy cheap belt replacement was exactly that - and noisy to boot because it was waaaay too tight. The Thakker, well it simply works and works quietly!!!! If someone were to ask me, is all this hullabaloo worth it (and let's not even discuss record cleaning rituals and cartridge overhang etc etc), I would say definitely no. I am enjoying the challenge but how long this will remain fun I don't know. Then you read about the forgotten art of record making where most of the music is recorded digitally nowadays and modern recordings simply suck in analog (according to some). And then you learn the real technical limitations as per:
GREAT SOUNDING RECORDS »
I knew there may have been a reason I dumped analog in the mid eighties (and I was a direct drive guy then) - not saying I am defeated yet as there is still a holy grail to seek out (it is about the journey not the ultimate goal right?).... I'm sure this Thorens will end up merely being a curiosity conversation piece for when company comes over in a couple years time - hey what is that pop art looking thing over there sitting next to your stereo?
Well, I'm glad you asked. I used to live in a little town called Lahr, West Germany once upon a time where these things were made for many many years - so I thought I would get me one out of nostalgia....
;-)

 

S

so sorry to confuse. When ready to adjust after setting /levelling the nuts under the springs you rotate the whole spring /rubber around the long bolt that secures it to the chassis. Say looking at it underneath the spring is at 12 o clock move spring and rubber bush to Quarter of a turn(quarter past 12)
Looking at the spring say when its in the palm of your hand at one end saythe large end it resembles a G. The straight bit in the centre is the spine.
By putting a dab of paint, you know where it is, and are not working blind.
Basically the way it works is when the position of the position of the spine(G) is balanced the springs work together. When not in balance the springs are fighting each other.
Simply start at front left . Tap above the spring on the platter.it should be floppy and bounce at least 15 times.
Looking underneath note where the paint mark is. Push it up slightly to aid rotating it. Rotate say quarter of a turn.
Tap platter again and see if it improves
Basically that's it. By putting a dab of say white paint on spring
You know where you start and where it works best.
Now when the 1st spring is done both springs on right can be rotated to square arm board. As you rotate say the rear spring you will see the arm board veer to left or right. Then you begin to understand about the springs and balancing. When arm board is square in its aperture, then very little adjusting will be needed. And it should bounce15-20 times and no sideways movement.
The heavier the arm the less of a bounce..
I use a wall shelf. It's quite high. I remove the board and place two pieces os 2"x1/2" wood across and place turntable on this, i then move adjusters on wall shelf which are directly below 2x1/2 timber supports to get base level. Then i adjust platter via nuts under spring to get level (and5mm gap between platter and top plate)
Took me a week to fathom it out. Can do it now in 20 minutes!

 

Many thanks Thorensman - will give it a whirl...

 

Thanks thorensman. I was planning on doing this soon. I was planning to take out the foam inside and clean the springs. They are pretty grimey

 

I

did not mention it but some leave the foam out.

 

Another tip. When you have finished. Before refitting base. Remove platter, belt, and inner platter. Some decks have a bracket fitted to prevent inner platter removal.(screws can be slackened to enable inner platter removal)
Plug main bearing with blue tak
This will lighten deck and hopefully prevent suspension moving whilst refitting base.as previously stated i leave the base off for a week or so to ensure any drifting can be corrected.

 

Yep that's Who I got my Oil from, he will answer questions too

 

I just used 3 in 1 machine oil - seems to work good. I am not much for secret brew oils (I am a Hydrocarbon Engineering Technologist aka Petroleum Technologist by education so have a pretty good grasp of lubricant/protection). My TT does not have the bracket so I remove both platters (being a newer TD 165 with inner 10mm bearing diameter same as TD 160 and outer every time I dip it upside down - this is where the old cracked dust cover comes in handy - I cap the top to of the bearing well to prevent anything from dripping out.) Just received my record clamp last night and with that and the record on, the platter is starting to get a nice bounce to it. Bottom is off and will stay off for a while. I like my custom PVC leveling stands better than the cones and pucks on the 1/2 inch plywood base. I may just leave the bottom off because my crusty old ears seriously can't pick up a difference whether on or off. Will measure up bottom of platter to plinth distance tonight and play with it some more. Also going to play around a bit with cartridge alignment/overhang and such. Cart is sounding real good (to me) as is but will see what some of the protractor setting will/can do like the Stevenson vs Baerwald (preferred Thorens setup as per Baerwald best for vintage Thorens? - diyAudio » ) ...

 

Glad things are going smoothly! Very satisfying! I bought my 150 for a project, ended up as main deck! Big plans to change arm, plinth etc, but with shure V15m3 sounds so good it remains as it is. I did fit phono sockets to plinth, to allow the use of various interconnects, and fine tune pf loading.
A lot of Linn users leave the base off!
The standard arms are very good in my opinion,Looking on the Thorens dept some thorens arms did not comply to Baerwald or Stevenson,
Thorens supplied an alignment gauge which can be found on Ebay.
Using this made a difference on my tp13 arm.
I can check on this when I have 5 mins.
Not sure if this is why reviewers are less than entheuiastic about thorens arms.
I don,t think bounce is ultra critical, i think the pulling side to side is important.. Always check with deck running! Very pleased for you.

 

A note: The TD 165 is finicky about belt quality and thickness being correct. Thorens factory belts or Thakker belts work best.

 

Yes i also found that!top tip, and no doubt the cause of many running problems for users .

 

The arm lift on my 166 mkii bounces when I lift it up. Went it goes down it sways a little to the outside of the disc. Anyone know the cure for this?

 

You might just need to clean the rubber on the lift, and clean the arm where it sits on the lift, just get a bit more grip/friction.