EMM Labs CDSD SE doesn't LOCK onto CD/SACD?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by timztunz, May 24, 2015.

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  1. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    I recently bought a used EMM Labs DCC2/CDSD SE combo (to replace a Pre-SE set) and I'm having some trouble I'd like to if anyone can help me with. I can't get the CD player to output noise (either Redbook or SACD). They load, they identify as CD or SACD, they spin, just no sound. I have no problem with the turntable, via the analog connections. So it's obviously nothing to do with the preamp section of the DCC2, or the connections through the amp and speakers. It must be something I'm doing wrong but for the life of me I can't figure out what. So let me tell you where I'm at and see if you can see what I might be missing.
    1) One thing I notice is that neither for CD or SACD does the "LOCK" ever light up on the front of the CDSD.
    2) I have connected the Black, Blue and Red optical connectors supplied with the unit exactly as indicated in the supplied diagrams, which is also the way my original Pre-SE Units were connected. I also tried using another set of optical connectors I had from my units but still no joy.
    3) The CDSD "INT/EXT" switch is set to EXT as advised in the included diagram and is also the way it was when received from the seller.
    4) The CDSD "OPTIC/BNC" switch is set to OPTIC as advised in the included diagram BUT is also NOT the way it was when received from the seller. My old unit was also set to OPTIC so I was a little bit curious as to the seller's being set to BNC? But I also tried with the switch in the BNC position but still no joy.
    5) When the CD is spinning and should be making music all of the lights on the front of the DCC2 are lit as indicated in the included diagram - LOCK-44.1kHZ-WIDE-ST. As mentioned, the only missing light is the LOCK light on the CDSD.
    6) After I got everything hooked up and power on I did notice a light crackling/static-y sound coming from the speakers even before a CD was put in. When I tried playing a CD the light crackling/static-y sound remained but no music was produced. The odd thing is that when I tried to play a SACD the light crackling/static-y sound went away when I hit PLAY. But again, no music was produced.

    I've been on this for several hours and feeling very stupid and frustrated because it seems like it must just be something I'm missing. I really hope you can see something in here to help me along the way.

    Thanks for any advice or help anyone can offer.
    Tim
     
  2. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    No EMM guys/gals here?
     
  3. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I guess not with that combination. I see you asked on AudiogoN too, and you are likely to find some owners there. Good luck.
     
  4. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks! I absolutely don't get it but today I changed the INT/EXT from EXT (which is what the connection diagram from EMM says to do and was the way it was received from the seller) to INT and voila! MUSIC! I could have sworn that I tried that yesterday but can't be certain now. I have everything else connected and set exactly as EMM says to do, except that switch position. I don't get it but I have tunz now so it will be much more enjoyable looking for info about that. Thanks to everyone here for moral support at least!
     
  5. Jim T

    Jim T Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mars
    With the cost of that gear you deserve to have a player that at least plays.
     
    MonkeyMan and timztunz like this.
  6. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Fantastic mate
     
  7. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    100% in agreement with that statement.
     
  8. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Ok, here's one last stab at someone here owning a DCC2/CDSD SE set and would want to compare their connections and settings with me. Following is where I am currently at with all of this.......
    • I've made all of the ST optical connections between the CDSD and DCC2 exactly as the diagrams and DVD from EMM Labs shows, and have done so with 3 different sets of ST cables, all with the same results.
    • On the back of the CDSD I have the OPTIC/BNC switch set to OPTIC, which is also per instructions and makes logical sense.
    • On the front of the DCC2 the source is selected as DSD ST.
    • Since my last writing I have figured out that with all connections made exactly as instructed, the only way I can get sound at all is with the back INT/EXT switch on the CDSD set to INT, which is not consistent with the instructions. However, on the front of the DCC2 there is a button to select Internal or External Clock. With the back switch set to INT on the CDSD I can toggle between Internal or External Clock on the DCC2. When I toggle between the two there is a slight delay while the signal changes. This seems to indicate to me that there IS a change going on, and if I believe what the lighted button is telling me it's switching between Internal and External Clocks. I can't honestly tell you that I can hear a difference between the two settings, not with the limited exposure so far. But the unit does play in this scenario.
    • So I guess my ultimate question boils down to this, "If the INT/EXT switch on the back of the CDSD is set to INT (which is the only way I can get any sound), do I really get the option of Internal or External Clock from changing the toggle position of that button on the front of the DCC2?" And if so, WHY in God's name do the instructions say to set that INT/EXT switch to EXT?
    • As long as I might have the benefit of another DCC2/CDSD SE owner viewing this let me tell you about one other issue. When a disc is loaded into the CDSD and the unit identifies it as a CD there is a small amount of static coming from the speakers. The static remains even during playback although hardly noticeable unless in very quiet passages. But it is noticeable when the disc is not playing. When the player identifies the disc as an SACD it does not have the static. Strange, huh?
    I'm going to try and get to the bottom of all this through EMM. But according to what I find of other people trying to communicate with them, I'm not very encouraged. All of the documentation I can find seems to be centered around Pre-SE units and not much indicating different instructions or information about SE units. All I know is if I do everything the way they say to do it, I don't get music.
     
  9. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    The combination allows you to change the Master/Slave clocking arrangement, something that is only available on the likes of EMM, dCS, Playback Designs, etc. The Slave arrangement is equal to the situation used by most transport/DAC set-ups. The transport is clock master, and sends its clock to the DAC:

    Transport (INT) -- clock signal --> DAC (EXT)

    In the Master situation, the clock in the DAC controls the transport, and there is closed loop connection:

    DAC (INT) -- clock signal --> Transport (EXT) --clock signal --> DAC

    So, it is important to realize that you need to set INT on one device, and EXT on the other. Assuming that you have done that (and both are set for Optical), then either:

    a. there is something wrong with all the sets of fibers;

    or

    b. there is something wrong with the optical Clock Out connection of the DCC2.

    The ST fibers are notoriously fragile. You can try connecting each to the Data and/or Clock output of the transport to see if you can see light at the end of the fiber (go through each set of three fibers). If all three in a set are showing red light, the fibers would appear to be intact. That would point to a problem with the optical Clock Out connection.

    It seems the Slave arrangement works. In that case, ensure that the transport is set to INT and the DAC to EXT. Yes, you will get sound if both are set to INT, but the clocks will eventually drift apart, and you will get audio glitches. So, set the switches accordingly to avoid problems.

    If you cannot get the Master arrangement to work, you should contact the person you bought the units from, and then, if you get no joy there, contact EMM.
     
  10. Long Live Analog

    Long Live Analog Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Tn. Mid South
    Tim, oh man sorry about the troubles with the EMM Labs. FWIW, a friend of mine had issues with his and eventually went with the Playback Designs...
     
  11. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Do you see red light at the end of a fiber from the DCC2's Clock Out like you do from the transport's?
     
  12. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    When you buy used, you usually are buying someone else's problems.
     
  13. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Black Elk, thank you so much for your great response and logical informative post. It's much appreciated. I'm out of town currently and can't check all the things you mention. I do have the settings correct. But your points about the fibers and possible defective optical Clock Out connection on the DCC2 bear investigation. Although I have tried with 3 different sets of ST cables. But I didn't know about checking for the light.

    I did get through to someone at EMM (which was much easier to do and helpful than I had been led to believe was possible) and at least now understand that the preferred method for best SQ is the Master situation as you describe it. It will play in the other configuration, it's just considered preferable in the Master configuration. And you are correct, if they are set the same there will be audio defects. So if the cables check out then your idea of the defective optical Clock Out connection on the DCC2 looks more and more likely.

    Of course there is always that possibility? That's the risk we take to save half the original price or more. But I don't think I would agree with "usually". The vast majority of components I've purchased over the years have been used and this is the first one I've had a problem with. As soon as I have concrete information about what's going on I'll contact the seller if it's warranted. I have no reason yet to believe he won't stand behind it.
     
  14. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    I've been tempted too but then I have to buy a preamp too! :rolleyes:
     
    Long Live Analog likes this.
  15. Long Live Analog

    Long Live Analog Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Tn. Mid South
    Hey buddy, hope you get the issues resolved. It's a PITA when things don't work as they should.
     
  16. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Fair enough.
     
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