Empire 598 turntable, an awesome deal!

I finally scored a deal on an Empire 598 turntable that appeared on Craigslist. I called the phone number as noted, and once I talked to the guy, I asked about price and condition. He said good condition (needed overhaul, but otherwise complete) and $20 so I didn't hesitate to say "mark it sold". I went and picked it up as soon as I could, and now it is mine. I just ordered the belt, plan to relube the motor and main bearing, and replace the plexiglas panels with Lexan (there's only one spot that is bad, as well as a few very minor surface marks on the woodwork, but it is otherwise in very nice condition). The woodwork should be easy enough to bring back to nice condition (since there's no signs of veneer de-lamination or water/solvent damage).

The biggest irony is that I had two NOS Empire 888 cartridges that I was hanging onto in the hopes of finding one of these turntables.... I finally decided to sell the cartridges last week (and you guessed it, I now have the turntable)... Fortunately, I didn't sell the Empire 999-VE cartridges, so one of those will be going onto this turntable, and the other on the AR XA that I bought last week.

Anyone else here had any experiences with the Empire turntables? (from the earlier models to the later Troubadour versions)... Any technical advice? Please feel free to share your thoughts. Thanks.

 

Empire Turntable

Congratulations on your find! At that price you can't go wrong.

Can you post some pictures?

Scott

 

Empire

Advice?

Just dont play ANY of your valuable records on that beast.

They LOOK cool and retro, but they will destroy your records. Those early 60s arms were not designed for gentle playback. They were designed to slam into the groove and not skip, hence the 3-6 grams tracking weights.

They VERY worst thing you can is to run those old arms with a modern cart and try to track at 1 or 2 grams. If you must use one of those tables, use an older cart thats designed for 3-5 grams and play old beat up disks on it.

 

A lot of people put more modern arms on these tables. There is a coterie of Empire fanatics who won't have anything else.

 

Mr. stereoguy doesn't know what he's talking about.

The arm in the 598 was designed to track the highly compliant Empire cartridges of the day which typically tracked at around 1 gram.

The 598 is NOT an early sixties TT anyway. It is from the seventies.

Let's try to get facts straight before posting in a public forum.

Doug

 

Thanks for confirming what I had thought... I was reading that comment earlier about the heavy tracking cartridges (and thought it was inaccurate), yet my Empire 999-VE cartridge brochure even shows the cartridge installed on a earlier model Empire turntable. I knew that statement had to be false, especially since the Empire 888-VE ("pink") and 999-VE ("purple") cartridges track at 1.5g, as confirmed in my original 999 brochure. Perhaps he (stereoguy) may have confused this table/arm with one such as the Garrard A70? record changer which I had been told aren't good at tracking at less than 2 or 3 grams, (so as to be able to stay in the groove while "tripping" the auto return and changer mechanisms).

As far as pictures go, I will post those as soon as I can (busy work week and better part of this upcoming weekend). I need to put it back together once I clean and relube the main bearing/spindle (original lube is dried out). Even the dustcover is complete, though I plan to restore it to like-new condition in the upcoming weeks.

 

Empire 598

"I need to put it back together once I clean and relube the main bearing/spindle (original lube is dried out). Even the dustcover is complete, though I plan to restore it to like-new condition in the upcoming weeks."

++++++++++++

to Fxsuperglide,

Have you seen this site? It shows an old Empire turntable (is yours the same?) being cleaned and serviced. Also shown are some shots of the TT "innards" and also the tonearm.

Scott

Empire Link,

http://www.woodhorn.com/empire.htm

 

Pretty cool.

 

Ya, nice job but I don't like the fact that he did away with the factory machine marks.

Those are part of the Empire table look and should be preserved. Also the gold finish.

For once I would like to see one of these restored to EXACT faftory look.

Doug

 

Doug: I confused the Empire table in question with a much earlier, early 60s model.....

BUT, I stand by what I said.....those heavy arms are record killers.

Also, try to be a bit more civil, ok?

 

Yep, that's it! ....Of course, mine looks more like the "before" pictures. Still, I need to get some "before" pictures of mine (I should finally have time tomorrow or Sunday to do so).

 

Why even bother with the Empire 598 when you already have Linn Sondek?

 

Hmmm, let me think for a moment to answer that one (by the way, I'm not insulted by the question, but I feel it deserves to be answered, anyways)...... Why bother with an Oldsmobile Diesel when I already own a reliable, dependable Subaru Outback? Why bother with mopeds or bicycles when I already had a motorcycle? Why even mess with "anything less than the absolute best?"

Reasons? First of all, I'm a hobbyist, so it's something I really enjoy (especially fixing things that have potential). Besides, I've always wanted to try one out, just to see how "good" it does sound, "compared to whatever else is out there" (even if it isn't a Linn Sondek). Best yet, the price was only $20, so it's a "no-loss" purchase (so once I do it the justice of fixing it right, someone else could end up enjoying it, even if I don't really "need" it).. Lastly, I will fix and resell any half-decent "entry level" turntable, as long as it meets certain minimum requirements and doesn't cost more to fix than I can get out of it (remember, not everyone can afford the LP12, yet there's nothing worse than someone buying something less than adequate. - such as BSR "record chiselers", those "retro" Crosley or Philco all-in-one systems, cheap console systems, etc, as those belong in the trash or never should have been made in the first place)... The ones that disappointed me as a kid were those cheap "suitcase record players" that tracked heavy and skipped on the simplest records and those "all-in-ones" with the included BSR "record chiseler". The Empire turntable is WAY better than a cheap turntable, even if it may not be a Linn Sondek LP12. I have no doubts that I'll enjoy listening to the Empire, once it's done. Oh, and one last reason I could really think of for even bothering with this Empire? To trace back to the Linn's roots and to see where the "suspended audiophile turntable" really began. I simply want to see how "close" these "other turntables" are/were, compared to the "early Linn Sondek LP12". I should note that I also bought an AR "XA" turntable the week before (and that's a turntable that several claim the Thorens TD150 and Linn Sondek had copied).....

I should also note that I believe the earth is ROUND (a sphere), even though I own a Linn Sondek LP12 (several of them).

 

Wow fxsuperglide, you've had some kind of week. Congratulations on your latest scores. I can't wait to see the photos, particularly of the AR since I've yearned for one of those for quite some time. Have fun and let us see the progress!

 

Used to have one of those turntables. Used to have an LP-12. Want both back. The Empire definitly had a 'sound' and I really liked that sound. Very good turntable with a halfway decent arm.

 

Some of those "old" arms aren't THAT bad. It seems people can freak out when the weight approaches 1.1 grams

 

I'm almost set to try the Empire 598 turntable. I cleaned out the bearing and spindle with Marvel Mystery Oil (seemed to clean all the old "varnished" oil), completely drained it, and refilled it with Royal Purple 5w30 Synthetic Oil (with just enough oil, so it would "top off" and using napkins to catch the overflow). I installed the NOS belt (originally not realizing that the included Empire jewel case contained an UNUSED NOS "DB-508" Genuine Empire belt within it - I simply thought the owner had used it to store the "used" belt inside)... Tried it out on all 3 speeds and was able to fine-tune each speed by using the "motor tilt" fine-tune adjustment located under the cover - the belt is manually changed on the 3 step pulley for 33, 45, and 78 speeds. Once I get the correct screws (shorter, US thread) for the NOS Empire 999-VE cartridge/stylus, then I'll be all set to test it out (I may carefully trim the longer screws, which originally held a Shure M44E cartridge to the headshell piece). I did order an aftermarket belt for it, and will soon find out how it compares to the original Empire belt (sure wish I could stock up on those original DB-508 part number belts, though).

 

BTW, the original Empire Scientific that made these Empire 298-698 TT's is still around in Long Island, NY. It morphed into an electronic parts distributor some twenty years ago - shortly after it stopped making the 698, which I really liked but ended up getting a comparably priced DUAL CS-721 since I did not like S-shaped arm. The 698 is certainly a much better looking TT than the 721, which is still working perfectly after almost 30 years.

 

fxsuperglide, what do you think of your 598 compared to your Linn table? Would you compare the two sonically and tell me your impressions? I have a 598 right now that I've been playing with and trying to decide how far to take it. Thus far I can tell you that the arm tracks superbly, contrary to the many posts on the internet stating the contrary. What's interesting is that said amazing tracking is occurring with a Grado Green that I had lying around in the box and decided to install. I'm getting zero hum, zero "Grado dance", and by reducing the anti-skate to almost zero I've been able to virtually eliminate any trace of inner groove distortion during challenging passages during the last band. Tracks all but the last band of the Audiophile News Test Lp without problems. There's a lot of misinformation concerning heavy vintage arms. In the final analysis, having owned both cutting edge modern low mass arms and high mass vintage pieces, the beautifully machined, well-made vintage heavy stuff tracks better, pound for pound.

 

I should have said 2.1 grams.

 

I realize this is an old thread, but since it popped up, a few comments from my ownership since 1973 to date...
Since the motor "leans" with the speed adjustment, the rubber mounts can become worn in. You can dismount the motor and rotate the rubber grommet mounts to get better speed control and better vibration isolation. Web searching will turn up threads where you can source new mounts if they are really hardened. I believe Empire recommended NO lube for the "oilite" spindle bearing, other than just a drop or two of mineral oil if it got dry for some reason, such as over-zealous cleaning.

I used to track at 3/4 gram sometimes with the Empire cartridges on my 598II. Really. Later, with a Shure V15 IV I would do 1.75G with the brush down (which gave it an effective 1.25G tracking force). I have many, many recordings made from this setup in the 1970s and all sound as good as any I can make today. I could easily lift the turntable from the right side while playing, until the platter was nearly vertical, and the thing would play just fine. Freaked out anyone who saw it, especially anyone who cared for their records as I always have. Didn't hurt them a bit. As their literature said, you could play records upside down if there was a way to keep the platter in place.

The only signal issue you should ever have is that the cabling is fairly high capacitance. When CD4 LPs came out, I got an AT 14S and had to get a low capacitance cable directly from Empire. Others went the DIY route and modified the cable by cutting the lead and splicing low cap cabling, or sourcing a new plug and cabling to make a new one, complete.

I still use the TT occasionally to this day. It has an AT96E in it with an aftermarket .2x.7 stylus, sounds fantastic. Nothing wrong with that tonearm and the wow and flutter on that thing is super low, nearly immeasurable. You may want to dial in more antiskate than the setting shows since the spring inside may be fatigued, you'll have to 'put your ear on it' and see.

Enjoy.

 

I totally disagree. I have owned a number of 598 Troubadors and never did I damage any record. I know this is an old sleapping thread but I just cant help to disagree regarding such a well built turntable.

You can track at 3,4,5,6 grams without damamaging a record. This will only happen when you have a bad stylus. I have bought many records from thriftstores and who knows what VTF they used on them. A lot of these records where used on record changers that use tons of VTF, why do they still sound good with no distortion?

 

Hifi Accessories, strobe disc, record cleaner, turntable belt, mat, cable, motor mounts »

But expensive.

 

I got mine 3 for $17, delivered price, at that auction site. Still see them there today. Look for Empire Grommet and qty 3 offered. Seemed fair after 41 years.

 

This a totally false statement.

If you track at 3,4,5,6 grams, you are going to wear out the grooves. That is a physical fact...the higher the tracking weight the more wear on the grooves. That is exact reason is why the record industry WENT to lighter tracking
tonearms, to curb record wear. Record critics in the early / mid 60s wrote articles about the high rate of record wear and shamed the manufacturers into designing new, lighter weight tonearms.

You say you bought records from thrift stores that still sound good. You have no way of knowing what the previous owners played them on, or if they were played once , twice or 100 times. How can you make the statement you made?