Entry level turntable recommendations

I had a feeling you would say that. I knew I should just be patient, but I couldn't help myself! It's killing me that I've been waiting all week for this table and can't use it because of a damn $0.02 o ring..

The Rega Carbon and Bias 2 only have 2 mounting screws. I guess I could swap out the Bias for the Carbon, and then just slide the counterweight into its original position until I get the o ring. Probably would be good practice for aligning cartridges anyway..

 

Yeah, either should be find. The Blue Jeans is a very well shielded cable. I dunno about the AQ, but from the literature it looks like a twinax, with a braided and foil shield and also should be fine although it's won't be as low in capacitance as the LC-1 which is a ultra low cap coax. As long as the output impedance of the phono pre is low enough you should be OK, though 25 feet is pretty long.

 

What output impedance should I be looking for on the preamp? I only see an input impedance of 47 ohms listed

 

I see why Rega do this -likely because on cheap TTs they were getting customer set up issues. But this auto bias and fixed set up is not a good idea as you are finding. Frankly I just wouldn't trust this without setting up manually and using a balance. I suggest you do this anyway. Bias should be OK as long as you stick to Rega or supplied cartridges but people who fitted something different have run into problems. Frankly for a trustworthy set up and a large lift in SQ I would only recommend the new P3 as a minimum. It is so good may be only TT you ever buy.

 

Yea, the 3 is in a different league. Seems like Rega tried to make the Planar's 1 and 2 for the plug and play crowd to get decent sound without fiddling. The 3 is where the fun begins, but also the work. It opens the window into the high end, but in the high end, EVERYTHING freaking matters in the setup.

 

47,000 ohms input impedancd I'm sure, not 47 ohms. It would be unusual for something other than an unbuffered tube phono preamp to have a problematically high output impedance. Though still, 25 feet is pretty long... the lc1 isn't the world's most transparent cable, but it is super low capacitance so for that kind of length it might be a good choice. AQ doesn't post a spec does it?

 

Yes definitely 47k ohms... I couldn't find a spec for the audioquest. They just claim to make low capacitance cables. Maybe I'll contact them to see if I can get a straight answer. Then I'll go with whichever has a lower capacitance.

 

This is mixing things up a bit. The first reference was that a turntable shouldn't drive 25 feet of cable before going into a phone pre to amplify it. That I agree with,m but you'd be putting the phono pre at the turntable end (table / cartridge > phono at 47,000 ohms) and running that amplified signal through 25 feet of cable to the amp. Although not ideal, and possibly subject to radio frequency interference (RFI) or hum, not likely to be a big problem. Shielded (rejects RFI/hum), low capacitance (rejects effects on frequency changes), low resistance (less loss of signal) cable like Blue Jeans or AQ will help there.

I've never laid my hands on a Rega but I've set up a lot of 'tables and have a tracking force gauge and would be happy to help get you set up, or even to double-check the setup done by the seller.

 

That would be awesome. I've actually swapped out the Bias back to the Carbon. It's better, but there's still some distortion particularly noticeable in the vocals at the end of the side. I was pretty meticulous with the included protractor, but I don't have a ton of experience with TT setup.

I would love to get the Bias back on and set up properly without waiting for that o ring. I'll send you a PM

 

Surely Ed has one of these...

 

I'm guessing I would tape a dime (1.75g) on the counterweight, then manually balance the tonearm and remove the dime? That should give me a VTF of 1.75g, right?

 

Also, side 1 of Bringing It All Back home is ~24 minutes. Is some level of IGD expected on a side that long? Especially when the final track is Bob Dylan's 115th Dream?

This is the mono Sundazed reissue if anyone else wants to reference their copy.. it's not unlistenable, but it is noticeable when compared to the digital/CD version.

 

@Grateful Ed, hard to eliminate all factors with limited materials. You could print a protractor online (or use one supplied) and try to find someone local with a gauge you can borrow. Lots of record stores have gauges. Call around. I'm sure if you bought a record (which gives you another record to test) and then brought the table into the store and asked to use the gauge for 2 minutes most shops would be cool with it.

Just to warn you now if you're newer to vinyl or new after a long hiatus- some albums are just going to have a bit of IGD almost no matter what due to their pressing quality. Even when perfectly setup, the more basic the stylus (size, shape, cantilever materials, etc) the more albums will exhibit at least a small amount of IGD. The higher quality your gear and more precise your setup, the less you'll be able to hear any IGD (eventually getting to the point of a very low percentage of only the most troubling albums having any issues), but it's pretty much part of the territory with vinyl.

 

If you haven't already, I would highly recommend getting on amazon and ordering a $13 digital stylus scale. They are cheap, easy to use and super accurate. I have turntables with calibrated counterweight scales and also one with just a simple weight on the back of the arm. One would think that the calibrated ones are, well, calibrated and accurate, but many of them aren't very accurate. In any event, I have come to believe that every cartridge installation or arm change should be cause to check VTF with a scale to make sure it's correct. It's so easy to do and brings piece of mind that the VTF is set properly. Cheap, easy, amazon will have one at your door step in 2 days.

I cannot remember if there were discussions earlier in the thread of protractors to check the alignment of your cartridge in relation to tracking along the record grooves, but that's another thing to earn about. I bought a mirrored alignment protractor on amazon for $9 that I use and it's another winner. Rega manufactures their arms and cartridges to have three mounting holes in order to do away with the need to align with a protractor, so if you are using the three mounting holes in Rega carts I believe you can ignore this paragraph, but still good to know about alignment if you use a non-Rega cartridge at some point.

Second, I've had the experience with brand new cartridges that, even when set up correctly, they are less than perfect for the first few records played. I recently set up a brand new Ortofon 2m blue and had some IGD on inner tracks and was pretty disappointed in its overall edginess. I posted about it and was advised that this is not uncommon for brand new cartridges. I rechecked alignment and VTF, relaxed and played records. Within four of five LPs, the sound smoothed out and it's been great ever since.

That first week or so of getting into vinyl is a series of great moments combined with frustration. If you pay attention to getting good at the set up, especially of the cartridge, and the cleaning/dusting of your records, you'll soon settle into really enjoying it.

 

I'm pretty sure the allignment is spot on checking with the included protractor. The turntable is perfectly level according to the iPhone 7. I've switched back to the Carbon (conical stylus) since the Bias 2 didn't have the o ring that was supposed to be included. My local record shop didn't have a gauge on hand, but the guy there said he would bring his in for me to check out. I've also been communicating with Terry to get him to have a look and listen and double check my setup. After a few more plays and a few different records hopefully I'll have a better idea of what's going on

 

Great moments combined with frustration is certainly a good description! I've had a turntable and records before, but it has been a long time. My listening has changed quite a bit since then as well. I'll try out a few different albums and try to break in the cartridge and hope things get better. Also I will borrow or buy a gauge to set / verify VTF and get my Bias 2 back on soon which should improve things as well.

 

Why not go on Amazon and buy a $20 gauge and get next day delivery? Forget about dimes etc. Does sound like VTF is too low to me from what you say.

Amazon.com: Neoteck Digital Turntable Stylus Force Scale Gauge 0.01g Blue LCD Backlight for Tonearm Phono Cartridge: Musical Instruments

 

Audioquest and Bluejeans both responded and said that 25' was perfectly acceptable for their respective cables going from phono preamp to integrated amp. Audioquest failed to give me a capacitance spec though. I really like Bluejeans cables and would prefer to support them over Audioquest, but I just can't stand those giant plugs on the LC-1 cables. For that reason (and slightly lower cost) I went with the Evergreen.

I also bought a stylus pressure gauge on Amazon and printed some Rega arc protractors from Vinyl Engine (Baerwald and Stevenson) to experiment with

 

Good. Take your time with the alignment, very small misalignments due matter. And don't be afraid to tinker with your tracking force slightly. Sometimes a hair more or less actually sounds better. You can hear the difference. Getting the most out of vinyl takes more effort than popping a CD in a player, but it can be quite rewarding. Plus, learning how can be fun.

Good. You should be able to set

 

I was, of course, (lamely) joking about the dime.

 

Got the Bias 2 back on and realigned and set the VTF with the digital scale. I was definitely tracking a bit too light on Saturday. I wasn't terribly off, but much better to be precise.

I also got a magic eraser to clean the stylus. I haven't replayed Bringing It All back Home yet, but I imagine it'll be much better now.

Been playing a copy of Hunky Dory that I picked up at the local record store. Tomorrow I should have Harvest, Blood on the Tracks and The White Album!

 

Congrats and great news that you're learning to set it up. Let us know how things proceed.

 

Today I popped on my copy of Harvest (140g reissue) and it started repeating on Heart Of Gold, Are You Ready For the Country and Words. 5 other records I have never have skipped. Coincidentally, they are all 180g presssings. I double checked my alignment and tracking force (even went up to 2g from 1.75 and Harvest still skips) and checked that the platter is level (iPhone 7 level says it's spot on). When I get down level with the platter and lightly blow on the cartridge it will move past the skipping point and keep playing. Could this be a problem with the auto bias system? Or could it be a problem with the record? Or is it a problem with my setup? I'm pretty detail oriented and meticulous about this kind of stuff, so I'd be surprised if my alignment was off by enough to cause skipping.

Would a bubble level be worth buying? I always thought the level on the iPhone was pretty good.

Since the skipping happens on my only 140g pressing I decided to put back on the thinner felt mat (opposed to the thicker wool mat from the upgrade pack) and played a 180g record to see if the height difference was causing the skipping. No skipping in that scenario either.

Tomorrow I think I may take it to my local record store and have them play it on their table - pretty sure they use a Technics SL1200 in the shop.

Thoughts?

 

If you're free sometime Monday I'll be happy to come check out your setup. By all means check the albums out down at Speiler's (the local record store in our neck of the woods for all the other listers), but it might have something to do with your setup and I hope I can bring some peace of mind. I'm free all day, PM me a time and address.

 

Thanks, Terry! Monday works for me. I'll PM you tomorrow after I test the record at Speiler's