Equilateral position for speakers?

Well, in this kind of case, we're not totally blind, we can hear what stuff sounds like and presumably we're experienced and informed listeners, there's just only so much even the best listeners among us can do with ears alone. And the rooms we're in aren't usually perfectly symmetrical and there are all kinds of objects in 'em so there's also only so much we can estimate from calculations about room dimensions and quarter wavelength distances. I was a little surprised in the end with set up distances I wound up with after measuring. Not that it was radically different from where I started based on calculations, but it also wasn't where I quite expectes things to wind up either.

 

My preference has always been that my primary listening position is slightly further away than the speakers are apart. As an example with the speakers 7' apart I am 9' from each speaker. This is of course dependent on the room for the exact distances used but in general is my preferred set up.

 

That's EXACTLY how I'm set up! It makes for nice fat mono. Perhaps not pinpoint precise, but the fat center and imaging beyond the speakers (for stereo, of course) makes up for it. Lots of depth to the center content; very pleasant for complex stuff like Pet Sounds. Avid 102's, btw.

 

Narrow bass null at around 45 Hz, could be a job for tuned resonator traps a la: GIK Acoustics Scopus Tuned Membrane Bass Trap (T40)

 

In my experience the room one uses usually dictates certain limitations on speaker positioning. Equilateral positioning may be ideal under many circumstances. And it is certainly a great starting-point, for speaker positioning, assuming that your room actually allows it. But oftentimes the speaker positioning can sound sub-optimal when setup that way because of conflicts with the shape of the room and a speaker's distance from the walls as well as reflective surfaces.

Personally most of my favorite listening rooms that I have setup all had the speakers a bit further apart than an equilateral triangle would dictate. The whole in the middle effect can often be fixed with enough toeing-in of the speakers.

 

it all comes down to your room. i have heard great sound in long narrow rooms where you are sitting far from speakers that are close together. you just have to work with it and forget about formulas.

 

an equilateral setup doesn't work with every room and can look pretty goofy / compromising the aesthetics in others. unfortunately some speakers are designed for a nearfield / equilateral setup.

 

Equilateral works great for me. But it took me literally years and new pieces of equipment to get it 'right'. In finding the right spot, sometimes the center image would be strong and each l/r side strong, but the left-center and right-center images were weak. So panning would jump from extreme sides to center without much in between. Like I had 3 speakers set up. Now it's very fluid from beyond each speaker to the center. I'd love to try a different speaker setup someday. But for now, I love having a HT/Stereo combo.

 

I should add that a laser measure was vital to getting things right. You must be perfectly equidistant. And I mean perfect. I can tell when I'm 1/2" out of alignment (if I sit too far to one side on my chair). It's just like dialing in VTA. It can sound great when it's close, but when you get it just "right" you say, 'ahhh'.

 

Good suggestion. I asked GIK about the Scopus traps when the room was new. Bryan thought it wouldn't be practical, as I'd need several to many traps, each something like 10" thick. The room is hardly big enough as it is! Fortunately, the null is narrow (thus not very audible) and predominantly in one channel (due to construction differences), so the other sub somewhat makes up for it.

Cliff, I fidget too much for that kind of precision! But I agree, a laser measure is a very handy tool for audio setup.

 

Barry Diament recommended a bit of an isosceles triangle, maybe sitting 10% the distance behind an equilateral triangle.

 

The funny thing is, I didn't aim for any geometric goal. I just kept tweaking until it sounded right. And that was a perfect equidistant triangle (9'6" for each leg) when it all clicked. The other key is room treatment. Without that, it's literally a crap-shoot.

 

My speakers are 8' apart and I sit 10.5' from them. I have no freedom to move my speakers further apart and I cannot bring the listening position closer due to furniture. That said, my "sweet spot" was found when I bring my head forward to 9' from the speaker. It is like a tease, because I cannot place my listening position there. I must live with 10.5' from my speakers and have to just deal with it.

 

i think nulls are impacted by both listening and speaker position

 

@Cliff - there's lots of room treatment. Though I've moved things around a bit, you can get a rough idea here.

 

Outside of nearfield, which I use on my PC configuration and once in a very small room (10x11) with Totem Sttaf speakers (about 6' equilaterally), I employ the recommended placement parameters of my Genesis G7.1f full-range loudspeakers. Those parameters are about 6' apart while sitting 8'-10' back. I settled on just slightly beyond 9'. These parameters are starting points and larger rooms than mine (11x16) would likely require more placement experimentation. My point is that one should always start with the manufacturers' suggested placement parameters. Additionally, given the recommend placement I would not play with my speakers to attain an equilateral configuration. They are clearly not meant to be utilised that way.

If I had a another room and system I would love to have an equilateral or close-to nearfield setup in there, as I quite enjoy it. Small scale Jazz and other intimate recordings lend themselves well to this type of configuration.

 

I hope this tread isn't extinct. I think I have something good to share:
I have researched the theories and recommendations regarding speaker positioning, done loads of math, made lots of diagram, and marked dozens of positions on my basement floor.
I've moved furniture around, installed and then removed a drop ceiling. Even tried a graphic equalizer.
I've still never been convinced that I was hearing a symmetrical sound stage, even when the width was symmetrical and the vocals were dead center. Somehow the Right always seemed to overpower the left; which surprised me, since my left speaker is 3 ft from the West wall and the Right speaker is 25 feet from the East wall. (It's complicated, don't ask) The speakers are 94 inches apart and my chair is positioned so the my head is 96 inches back on a line perpendicular to one between the speaker faces. This is just about half way between the North and South walls.

I considered getting a mic and some measurement software and decided that it wouldn't matter what the measurements were if the root of all evil was my lopsided hearing. I did get the Isotek Ultimate System Set-up Disc.
It has several tracks that use "moving" sounds to guide you on a 'getting warmer/getting colder' odyssey of inching your speakers around the room. After a bout 4 hours the first day and four the second evening I hit the jackpot, and boy, was I surprised. I would never have guessed the position my speakers wound up in to pass all the tests! The left is toed OUT about 20 degrees toward the near (West) wall an the right is toed in, again toward the West wall, almost 45 degrees such that a line extending perpendicular to the speaker face actually crosses in FRONT of me.

Would anyone reading this have guessed that? After listening to hours of British narration and castanets, when I finally played some familiar music I was really quite pleasantly surprised at the improvement! This $30 CD made a much, much bigger improvement than any cable I've bought since I first replaced a piece of crap OEM pair of RCAs with $25 Audioquests. I am in no way affiliated with the producers of this little treasure or the online store that sold it. I juts wanted to share something that worked very well for me. My music sound so much better no matter how near or far I move my chair. I am a happy, happy guy!!!