Eric Records - new releases - DES or "Digitally Extracted Stereo" versions of 50s classics +

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by John B Good, Feb 2, 2017.

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  1. lennonfan1

    lennonfan1 Senior Member

    Location:
    baltimore maryland
    Steve, out of curiosity, if they could make Caruso sound like a person recorded recently how would you feel about it?
     
  2. lennonfan1

    lennonfan1 Senior Member

    Location:
    baltimore maryland
    steve, if you could take a look at the post above....shoulda replied from the git go. sorry.
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    It would be wonderful, of course.
     
    lennonfan1 likes this.
  4. mono2STEREO

    mono2STEREO Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    If it were to sound like a person recorded recently shall we assume that they would be presented in a stereo mix? If so, would you still find that wonderful?
     
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Hi Christopher, didn't mean to beat up on you in this thread. I'm glad that you are making progress in the technique that so many love so much! You're giving the people what they want.

    A person sounds like a person. You can tell who it is on your cell phone, right? That lifelike subtle cue that makes them sound like they are standing right in front of you, well, that's harder to do.

    About 20 years ago when they tried to make old Caruso sound more "lifelike" by playing back his 1910 record in a giant concert hall and recording the ambiance, it just sounded like an old record playing in a concert hall. Was quite pointless. If we could somehow add overtones to make his voice more realistic sounding, of course that would be great, if it kept the original acoustic space intact. That would be a true time machine back. But if you want him to "move around" while he's singing, well, it would be to me, silly.
     
  6. mono2STEREO

    mono2STEREO Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Steve, of course I'm not suggesting having Caruso "move around" while he's singing, although it is probable that he did move some! It certainly would be nice to present his recordings in a way that conveys the original acoustic space of the performances. We definitely would not have been hearing Caruso in mono had we been there to enjoy his performances live at the time!
     
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Well, hurry up and figure out a way to do it. We're not getting any younger..
     
  8. Twodawgzz

    Twodawgzz But why do you ask such questions...

    I often say our audience is dwindling.
     
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  9. Kevin In Choconut Center

    Kevin In Choconut Center Offensive Coordinator

    My copy of "Hard To Find 45s On CD Volume 17" arrived today. To my ears, the digitally extracted stereo tracks sound weird. I am, however, quite pleased with those track that use the mono mixes and the original stereo ones as well.
     
  10. billtkd

    billtkd Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Scotland
    On the 'Caruso 2000' and 'Caruso 2001' CDs, yhey did their best to remove the original orchestra (before spectral editing and other tools were available). Declipping let Caruso's voice to stand out more from background noice. That made it sound louder and increasd the dynamic range. It still sounded like an old recording, but clearer. They then added a modern orchestra and that sounded out of place.
    One label that makes historical recordings sound recent is Dutton. Many labels do a good job with instrumental music but they manage it with vocals.
    For the record, I love Eric's DES . It could be argued that some of the separations are gimmicky but that is true of any pop record. Pop records are not trying to produce an Ambisonic sound field: they are trying make something that is fun. Anyone who gets precious about the 'artistic integrity' of a piece of whimsy like 'Rock Around The Clock' needs to get a life. It's just a pop song.
     
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  11. oxenholme

    oxenholme Senile member

    Location:
    Knoydart
    And that is how I feel about the remix of Sgt Pepper. And the centerizing of the vocal and the resulting lopsided sound of Catch A Falling Star on this disc.
     
  12. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    In what way? Is it because you're not used to them?
     
  13. oxenholme

    oxenholme Senile member

    Location:
    Knoydart
    This is one of the very few times that I've looked for a poster's equipment profile. And it ain't there.

    I'm curious as to whether the DES tracks sound weird due to high resolution playback gear or due to sensitive hearing.

    Could it be due to digital artifacts - to which I am not at all sensitive (I don't even know what they sound like) - or could it be due to some element(s) of the mix being divided between the speakers? Perhaps the majority of a guitar being in one channel but a small part being in the other? Again it is something to which I am not at all sensitive.
     
  14. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    I've only heard digital artifacts on "Incense And Peppermints", and that was only when I inverted one channel and cancelled them out. I did not hear any artifacts on any of the other ones.
     
  15. billtkd

    billtkd Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Scotland
    DES and upmixing aren't just about spectral editing, which can only separate sounds from different parts of the frequency spectrum. Software can learn what different instruments or other sounds are and separate them. Audionamics did it with the soundtrack to Psycho. Law enforcement uses it in forensic audio, to isolate suspects' voices. It was essential to the remastering of Live at the Hollywood Bowl, not to get stereo for its own sake, but to lift the band above the screaming fans.
    Upixing is often necessary for clarity. Playing old recordings on modern hi-fi won't necessarily make them clearer, if they were mixed for tinny, mono record players. As for all the artistic integrity nonsense, as someone else pointed out, if Haley's producers could have produced 5.1 mixes, they would have. Saying otherwise ranks with those who think the crackles on vinyl are part of the charm. It's not charming: it's noise.
     
  16. oxenholme

    oxenholme Senile member

    Location:
    Knoydart
    It's noise, it's there, it doesn't bother me, I ignore it.

    I'd rather have the surface noise than a disconbooberated top end due to futzing to remove it.
     
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  17. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC
    I will say that DES remixing of mono sources is just not quite "there" yet. There is still the issue of the loss of the "in your face" sonic quality of a mono mix right off the master tape (as in Rock Around The Clock).

    Of course, the way technology is moving, in 10 years it will be possible to do unbelievable things with mono sources.

    I also believe that 50 years from now, nobody will have TVs or Stereos. Rather, if you want to hear "Heartbreak Hotel" for example, you will press a button on your living room computer console, and a 3d Hologram of Elvis singing Heartbreak Hotel will appear before you, and it will look and sound like Elvis is in the room right in front of you. And he will be in color and in stereo.
     
  18. Hamhead

    Hamhead The Bear From Delaware

    This is nothing really new.
    Sony did something similar to DES when the remastered Bob Marley's "Birth Of A Legend" back in the 90's, does anybody remember it?
    Instruments that weren't in the mix sullenly appeared, all sorts of weird things were going on. Cowbells, scratchers and wood blocks....on ska?
    ICE Magazine that "Sony was working with multi generation master tapes on that release (Coxone Dodd has all the original tapes at Studio One)
    and things that were in the background have been brought out digitally"......cute. How Sony got it is beyond me.

     
  19. billtkd

    billtkd Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Scotland
    I wasn't talking about surface noise. I was talking about crackles (and clicks), which are easy to remove without affecting the sound. Whether either bothers you or not, they are not part of the original recording and shouldn't be there. 'Noise reduction' should no longer be considered nasty words. The technology to distinguish noise from signal has improved. When done with discretion, it doesn't harm the top end. In fact, it can enhance it. Much better than older remastering techniques that merely chopped off the high frequencies to eliminate tape hiss or vinyl roar.
    I have tinnitus that manifests as hissing not ringing. It's bad enough, so I don't want to hear tape hiss on top of that. In any case, companies like Eric Records use the source tapes where possible, so there is little or no need for noise reduction.
     
  20. DK Pete

    DK Pete Forum Resident

    Location:
    Levittown. NY
    I bought this on a whim primarily for it's inclusion of Richard Harris's original version of MacArthur Park. I've always been a "hunter" for good sounding CD versions of "all those great songs" I grew up with. For anyone with that mind set, I highly recommend this compilation; if you like even half the songs on it, it's worth getting for the incredible sound quality alone. Most of the songs are in true stereo and sound absolutely enveloping. Oh, and MacArthur Park screams "masterpiece" on here like I've never heard before.
     
  21. billnunan

    billnunan Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Agreed. Love those Eric Records releases.
     
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  22. DK Pete

    DK Pete Forum Resident

    Location:
    Levittown. NY
    I was actually taken aback at just how good these sound. I played the tracks in mixed up order as the mood took me. The first one I went to was Groovy Kind Of Love. From the second the opening guitar riff came in, my ears did a double take. I've *never* heard this song sound so clean, rich and well-defined. Another stand-out, sonically, is Mighty Quinn..the stereo separation of the drums and percussion take this recording to a whole other level from the fuzzy "AM-sounding" track I've been used to for all these years (that includes the relatively clean sounding version on 60's SIRIUS ).
     
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  23. AlmondRoca

    AlmondRoca Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    What's the story with these Eric compilations anyhow, quality wise? Why do they sound as good as they do? Are the compilers simply willing & able to get their hands on better quality master recordings than what was previously available? Or is it down to some magic fairy dust sprinkled on everything in the mastering suite?
     
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  24. DK Pete

    DK Pete Forum Resident

    Location:
    Levittown. NY
    I honestly have no idea. But for the stereo mixes to sound this surprisingly clean on many of the tracks, these have to be pretty low-number-generation tapes that the recordings are taken from. And a lot depends as to how well they were recorded in the first place. Psychotic Reaction, even in true stereo, still has garage-quality sound (but for this song, that's really not a bad thing).
     
  25. Surly

    Surly Bon Viv-oh-no-he-didn't

    Location:
    Sugar Land, TX
    I have volumes 15 and 16, both dedicated to the '80s. Great sounds, and great care taken in finding original single versions!
     
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