Eric Records - new releases - DES or "Digitally Extracted Stereo" versions of 50s classics +

New video just in to our news desk, on how forum member Grant is feeling, after trying to defend the DES process ...

 

Yep, and my faves are by Sagittarius.

 

hah! Not at all, but some of these guys won't even entertain the idea that the methods for it have greatly advanced in the last few years. They keep falling back on their static knowledge.

 

There are examples where the single version of a song has a longer running time than its album counterpart but Little Green Bag by the George Baker Selection is not one of them.

The LP version of Little Green Bag, which first appeared on the monaural Dutch Negram LP (NL 551) and then later in dreadful "electronically-rechanneled stereo" on the U.S. Colossus LP (CS-1002), has a longer running time (just shy of 4:20, see video below) than the original monaural Colossus 45 (C 112) version (running time about 3:20, George Baker Selection - Little Green Bag ((MONO)) 1970 ).

 

Three reasons why “Little Green Bag” is mono on the ERIC release:

1. The US mono LP version was faded later during the final chorus than the stereo version; therefore it was impossible to match the fade in stereo to the edited mono 45.
2. However the cowbell overdub was done in the mono and stereo versions, they do not match and must have been overdubbed at different times.
3. Since a stereo version of the song from the same take already exists, it made little or no sense to spend the time and resources to create a DES version from the mono. It DID, however, make sense to release the mono 45 version, which is “Hard To Find”.

 

I didn't say it was.

 

Ron Streicher, co-author of The New Stereo Soundbook, as well as President of the Audio Engineering Society in 2003 and 2004, had sent me in 2010 a brilliant elucidation as to what constitutes "stereo" so that I could post it on his behalf in a thread on spectral editing that I had started at the Both Sides Now Stereo Chat Board. You can read it in its entirety on the UPMIXING page of my monotoSTEREO.info website. Ron's book is superbly written and I highly recommend it for anyone interested in stereo sound!

 

I don't know, something about this doesn't feel right. I guess it is okay from a "fanboy" perspective ( meaning experimenting) but I would have the same misgivings about it even if it was from one of the major record companies.
I mean, how artistically accurate is this? Is it left to someone who is "mixing" these to go overboard just for the stereo effect?
Sorry if I am rambling....
I do own Eric releases, not sure if any have these types of "remixes" on them

 

"Artistically accurate"? Not sure what that means. But as long as they aren't adding anything new to the recording...if it's just spreading out the elements of the recorded instruments and voices across the stereo spectrum rather than them being all sent "down the center" to mono....I don't really know how it's not accurate from the artists' perspective.

 

I guess I meant some bands have a total artistic investment in their music, ( recording, mixing, even packaging) and if someone comes along and presents it in a widely different presentation, without any thought, except for, to exaggerate or call attention to what THEY are doing, that is my concern.
Like I said, I like Eric Records, have a lot of their releases. I also will probably pick this up for MacArthur Park.

 

Well, then I guess you just have to listen and decide if like the finished product or not. And most of this stuff is so old and, considering how these things were recorded at the time, I doubt there was really much artistic investment from the bands. They were just going in and doing what they were told and putting their trust in the recording engineers and the record company to complete the finished product.

Something like "Rock around the Clock"? This would have been recorded and mixed to stereo if it could have been at the time. It wasn't like there was some big artistic decision to made to do it mono instead because that's the sound the band and the producer really wanted.

So let's say it HAD been recorded to 4 tracks or whatever and mixed to stereo.....would the end result have been that much different than what this is today?

 

True.

 

I got the newly-released "Hard To Find 45s On CD - Volume 17" in the mail today. I just got finished listening to it straight through. I'm not going to argue the virtues (or not) of whatever technology was used. Whatever they did, to my ears, it worked. The majority of the versions presented here are the best I've heard. This was a delightful listening experience that I would wish upon any lover of 60s pop music. Song selection. Sound quality. Worth every cent I paid and more.

Given the quality of this production, I wasn't surprised to see, on page 11 of the booklet, Special Thanks to Ron Furmanek for his important contributions to the project.

 

My copy of HTF 45s On CD #17 came in the mail Tuesday, and I listened to it with a friend. We both were impressed with its exceptionally pleasing fidelity. The DES effects are astonishing! The audio engineers produced tasteful stereophonic images and, while I'll always regard the original monos as definitive, I'll play this disc often.

My favorite DES selection here is "Incense and Peppermints" by Strawberry Alarm Clock. I was initially concerned as I sampled the CD via ERIC's website that the fuzzed-out guitar that was walked from one channel to the other would be too much. However, it is imaginative and brilliant!

According to the ERIC website, there are only five DES selections on the CD, and they're all engaging, lifelike, and fun! The spaciousness and imaging are truly amazing! Even more exciting is that this is only the beginning!

 

I have "Hard To Find Jukebox Classics 1960-64: 30 Amazing Stereo Hits" as well, and it's a fine compilation! Of course musical tastes are subjective, but I think practically all the songs presented are winners, and those presented in stereo and DES are icing on the cake!

A bit off topic, but back in the 80s before most AM (medium wave) radio stations migrated away from music formats to news and talk formats, some stations began broadcasting signals that could be captured and played by specially designed radios in full dimensional stereo! While at a church picnic one day, I met a lady who was listening to an unusual and pretty-looking portable radio. Its case was unusually long and I saw that it had a speaker on each end. I asked her if I could hold it for a moment. When she let me, I was startled to hear "Yesterday" by The Beatles in true stereo on WLS AM 890! I could scarcely believe what I was hearing! I'm embarrassed now to admit that I asked if I could buy it from her. She politely said, "No" and explained that her husband brought it back from Japan and gave it to her. I have never seen another radio like it and have always wondered why especially since some AM stations were broadcasting in stereo.

 

I too have Dick Bartley Presents: Classic Oldies 1965-1969 and I love it! Its fidelity is superb!

 

Alright, I just borrowed BOTH of the new 2017 "Hard To Find" CD's from the local library, just to "hear" what has got this thread "buzzing".

Folks, I've said it before and I'll say it again now, but I'm rarely ever happy when anybody "tampers with history" and that is clearly what ERIC RECORDS is doing with their "DES Stereo", but, since it seems to be so pleasing to so many, I will attempt to keep a fair and balanced mind, regarding these two releases.

Let me start with the "Hard To Find : The Fifties" CD ...

Right out of the gate they attempt a stereo redo to the classic monaural "Rock Around The Clock". I had to listen about three different times to be sure that I was sold and I may be? I should note that I've always been 100% happy with the mono original on Steve Hoffman's 1986 MCA "Vintage Music" CD. Two more tracks that stood out to my ears, was "The Green Door" by Jim Lowe and Johnny Mathis' "The 12th Of Never", which are (I'm going to use the word) "interesting" to hear in stereo.

Now, as soon as I speak highly of those three songs, in the DES Stereo process, I follow-up with three that DO NOT. Fats Domino's "Blueberry Hill", Elvis Presley's "Heartbreak Hotel" and The Skyliners' "Since I Don't Have You" all suffer from what my ears are hearing, which are some dreadful processing effects. An almost "hallow" sounding effect, as if someone is trying to get "inside" the recording. I can't stand that sound, as it reminds of those old RCA Big Band recordings where they attempted some kind of rechannel processing ..., which are just horrible sounding to my ears!

Now, I will admit that I haven't spent anywhere near the same quality time with "Hard To Find : Volume 17", but I heard enough to decide that the DES Stereo process can make some songs sound "fuller" than they ever have before and that can be, once again "interesting", but do we really need them and what do they do to the future "history" of the original mixes?

Someone mentioned that Ron F. was mentioned in the booklet (The library copies that I borrowed sadly didn't have the booklets, so I'm not sure), but I will admit of being a fan of Ron F.'s work, from way back to his great work on those EMI "Legendary Master Series" discs. Ron knows how to remix a track and yet, keep it "real". His work on those Red Bird recordings and the recent Hermans Hermits Bear Family set are great fun, especially since I have most of the "original mixes" to fall back on. If we look at this DES Stereo as a "novelty", which it clearly is, then I find no real reason to fight it, but if this is to be ERIC RECORDS total new focus, then I will eventually lose interest.

I do thank them for including the MONO versions of "Little Green Bag" and The Fortunes "Here It Comes Again"! How about the MONO version of The Fortunes "You've Got Your Troubles" next time? As if they will listen to me after this review!

 

These new DES recordings DO NOTHING to history! The original monaural recordings will always be here. I agree with you that some DES mixes are better than others and that I have heard strange digital artifacts in some of them as well. I bought "Hard to Find 45s on CD Volume 17" because I was curious. There are only five DES selections, and they sound quite pleasant and natural to me. I passed on the 50s disc because there were quite a few selections I don't care for. I also agree that it is disconcerting to hear some of those 50s selections in artificially manufactured stereophonic sound.

 

yes, they will listen.


How To Contact Us:

Our mailing address:

ERIC RECORDS
P.O. Box 2216
San Leandro, CA 94577

Phone: 510-614-5355

Please leave your name and best EVENING time to call you back if we’re not in.

Fax: 510-614-8833

We welcome your comments on current releases and suggestions for future releases. Please e-mail us [email protected]

 

That's the best part! The remixer didn't take any artistic liberties. They were painstakingly matched to the mono mixes.

 

Except, they really screwed up with the stereo mix of "Love Is All Around" and "The Game Of Love". They are so bad that I can't listen to them.

 

Grant, The Game Of Love is not on that disc.

 

Well, SQ is certainly subjective; The entire disc sounds very good to me. I'm not aware of any DES on that release, and as DennisF pointed out, "The Game of Love" isn't on that release. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.,

 

Uh, yeah, it's on "Hard To Find volume 12". Still...

The SQ is fine. What I object to is the instrumental and tonal imbalances on those two songs as presented on the Eric CDs. On "Love Is All Around", the string section is way too loud, and the guitars aren't loud enough. The mix of "The Game Of Love" sounds disjointed, and the tonality is weird.

 

Do we have any ideas with respect to the origins of the stereo mixes of A Groovy Kind of Love, Gimme Some Lovin' and Mighty Quinn? I've never heard these in stereo before and was under the impression that no stereo version existed. New remixes?