Eric Records - new releases - DES or "Digitally Extracted Stereo" versions of 50s classics +

Way off-topic, but I was late to the party with Eric Records. Is there any chance they'll repress some of the OOP volumes currently commanding big bucks for secondhand copies, or are the licenses, etc., expired?

 

This series (the Hard To Find 45's set) has been chugging along for many, many years. I know the very early volumes are OOP, but I thought most were still in print. Do you have a list of the specific titles that are no longer available?

 

LaBoe had the tapes since he owned the Original Sound recording studio, I guess he didn't look at them as gold.
The ZFT has some of the early 5-track Pal Studio/Studio Z tapes, some of them were mixed to stereo for the Mystery Disc.

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Listening to those DES abominations reminds me of those terrible colorized Laurel and Hardy, and Three Stooges films from the 80's.
Remember when Ted Turner wanted to colorize everything, thank god it was only a fad.

 

The same argument could be made for never remixing or remastering anything.

 

In defense of Steve Hoffman and his opinion on this DES topic, who certainly doesn't need my defense, but out of respect, I'm throwing it in here all the same.

I once had the pleasure of meeting record producer/engineer Richard Dodd, whose engineering skills have been used by hundreds, including Jeff Lynne, Tom Petty and Neil Young, just to name a few. (Many more here ... Richarddodd.com ). The reason I bring up Richard is because when I met him and I saw his Nashville studio set-up, I knew that this guy was truly a pro and a very kind pro at that. Sadly, a few years ago I read a story on-line where Richard admitted to finally "giving in" to artists who wanted their recordings end result, "brickwalled". What does that have to do with this topic and Steve's opinion? Steve would NEVER "give in", he would respect a clients request and walk away from the job and the possible money to be made, because he wouldn't be happy with the end results himself! I'm not saying that Richard is a sell-out and I'm sure that in the end, Richard did whatever he probably "had" to do to stay on top of his profession and business in Nashville and I completely understand that, but I did however lose a little respect for Richard because of that decision, as he has so much business and influence, that maybe he could have helped turn that "brickwalling" thinking down a bit. People seek out a Steve Hoffman or Kevin Gray because they both have a very "focused" viewpoint of HOW mastering should be done and anybody who has been around here as long as I have (2002), knows that neither Steve or Kevin are in the "brickwalling", "colorization" or even "heavily remixing" business, period. So it should come as little shock that Steve feels the way he does about this DES process, and even if it proves itself technically sound on paper, it is still a bit of a cheat, in the end.

 

Please listen. I'll even send you some samples so you can evaluate it yourself. You still probably won't like the whole practice, but at least you will be speaking with the experience of hearing them.

I'm not one of those who can't live without stereo. But, if I can get a "DES" mix that sounds exactly like the mono mix, why not?

 

He is a great guy that is a real fanatic about records and sound quality. What did he tell you?

 

If that guy can do a DES on "Angel Baby" by Rosie and The Originals and fix the sax solo, there will be hope for the world.

 

You said, "You're messing with something that was messed with once already. The end result is just colorizing for your ears." I said you could use this argument to say nothing should ever be remixed or remastered, i.e., anything that is mixed and mastered once was messed with already, so remixing and remastering it is just colorizing for your ears.

The remixes in question aren't like colorizing anyway, because nothing is being added. The existing sonic elements are just being mixed into stereo.

 

In a world where a lot of new releases are sent out clipped to heck and back with questionable EQ curves directly from the band I don't see the problem in questioning what Bands officially put out. They are not infallible.

I don't understand the problem with taking any music released and adjusting it as a secondary release for people that may not like or appreciate the original release.

I don't really care if Metallica intended Death Magnetic to have a DR of near zero and clipped to death I think the mastering is horrible and ruins the music. Same with Red Hot Chili Peppers Californication and many modern releases. I feel the same way about mono release that I do about low DR and clipped releases. It doesn't sound like actual music to me. Mono lacking the natural spatial depth and separation of live music and clipped audio lacking the natural DR of live music. Both of these scenarios are not natural or desirable to me so I will seek fixes when I come across them.

In these cases artistic intention is not relevant to me in the least and I would prefer alternate mixes to remedy the official mixes .

 

Mono to me sounds like the source (band, orchestra, etc.) is way across the room. Stereo sounds like the source is in the room much closer to where I'm situated.

 

I have really been enjoying these DES tracks. They seem to be trying to recreate the mono balance with a stereo feel. Also, they are not trying to be ultra-widescreen in the mixes. They are approaching these things as if they had 3 - 8 tracks and the output is similar to stereo mixes of the same vintage. Yes, some work better than others, but I don't feel that I am listening to some Frankensteined, colourized nonsense. The colours are all quite natural thank you very much. Certainly not Mona Lisa in day-glo.

 

I love how in "Heartbreak Hotel" the guitar solo comes in one channel, while the following piano solo is in the other channel

 

They did rebalance those early twin-track Beatles albums for the 2009 remasters...

 

That's the way a lot of 60s stereo sounds because they added too much reverb!

 

Exactly! You have it right!

Again: if you do an A/B of, say, "A Groovy Kind Of Love" from this Eric CD with the mono mix, all you should hear is a slight EQ difference, if even that. The spectral editing technique worked very well for this song, as it did for "Winchester Cathedral" and "Lil' Red Riding Hood". It even worked well. or "Incense And Peppermints".

Perhaps, with further software developments, one will even be able to separate "The Pied Piper" into discrete tracks and mix it to stereo. Consider the possibilities! Imagine the single version of "Baby, You're A Rich Man" finally making it to stereo with the effects that are in the mono single mix.

Don't dismiss something just because it seems sacrilegious. I am against colorizing black & white films, or re-colorizing for the same reasons Steve mentioned. But I am against doing it right now. I don't think the technology is ready. But, it is for audio. My only hope is that those who release official audio content this way don't overdo it like the audio people have overdone everything else in the past.

What else I wonder about is that if one must first get permission before applying DES to a song.

Disclosure: when I talk about these stereo mixes, I am only referring to the late sixties volume. I have not, and do not intend to get the one with the 50s songs.

 

IMO, the DES on the 50's disc is the best that has ever been done. Relatively simple arrangements (e.g. Platters, Johnny Mathis) plus the good signal-to-noise ratio of full track mono really allows for a better result. The 60's songs were probably recorded 4-track and maybe 8-track, which resulted in poorer signal-to-noise ratios, bounced tracks, and more instrumentation via overdubs, making the DES process more difficult.

 

Well, I don't have nearly as much interest in the 50s songs being in stereo. And, it appears you have not listened to volume 17.

 

Actually, I mastered it.

 

Oh...cool! But, I still think you sell yourself short on Vo. 17. I'm really impressed with the newly created stereo on it.

 

Nice job! It is great!