Essential & Non-Essential Zappa

I would say Shut Up And Play....is essential to anyone who is into guitar-oriented rock, whether they are otherwise a Zappa fan or not.

There seems to be an emerging consensus that just about everything he released in the 60s/70s is essential but that, after that, things get a bit spotty (he upped his productivity around the turn of the decade, too). Ship Arriving Late and Man from Utopia don't seem to be that well-regarded, do they? Would the presence of a certain 'hit single' on the former have anything to do with that?

 

what makes you say this?
a pretty accessible album in a similar vein as One size...,Overnight... and Apostrophe

 

Buy "One Size Fits All", "The Grand Wazoo", "Apostophe", "Overnight Sensation" and "Zoot Allures" next!

 

Just a little bit too accessible. I don't think it's Zappa playing to his strengths. Trying too hard to be mainstream and radio-friendly. A few okay moments, but even those are found in better form on live discs. The bulk of it is just too tepid for me. It's the sound of Zappa playing at being a corporate rock product supplier.

 

Pretty much what I said

I like them, I just wouldn't call them essential. If those were essential then pretty much every live show would be essential to collect, as they all have unique and worthwhile guitar solos.

 

'Ship Arriving' is worth it for the title track and 'Envelopes.' The hit single (soon to be a major motion picture starring Nicolas Cage!) and the other three tracks are fun lightweight ditties that are, if nothing else, at least a relief from the cynical mean-spiritedness of the 'You Are What You Is' and 'Tinseltown Rebellion' albums. I like 'Man From Utopia' quite a bit (especially for 'We Are Not Alone' and 'Moggio') but I'd hesitate to recommend it to anyone else. It does contain three of my all-time least favorite FZ songs ('Stick Together', 'Sex' and 'Cocaine Decisions'.) Both albums balance on the cusp of essential without tipping over, depending on how much patience you have with the tracks you may not like.

It's not that 80s Zappa didn't have its fair share of brilliant and unique musical moments, it's just that he wasn't composing albums of pure genius any more so much as just compiling random collections of whatever he had recorded recently. For some people, it only takes one or two really bad tracks to make the whole album off-putting and/or hard to recommend.

 

I wish there was additional Hot Rats material... call it Warm Mice

 

This x 1,000,000.

 

Or call it 'King Kong' and put it out under Jean-Luc Ponty's name.

 

It's always seemed to me that the only albums where there's anything like a "consensus of disparagement" are:

(a) Thing-Fish--primarily because so much of it consists of reworked material,
(b) Francesco Zappa--primarily because Zappa didn't write the pieces and it's such an outlier stylistically,
(c) the various releases containing "Studio Z"/Cucamonga/Pre-Freak Out stuff--somewhat for the same reasons as above--it has some stuff that Zappa didn't write, that he didn't even perform, and that's kind of an outlier stylistically/kind of in the vein of juvenalia, and
(d) The posthumous Congress Shall Make No Law--just because it's a spoken-word release, consisting of stuff that wasn't even thought of as an artwork; it's more of a historical document.

The closest thing to a consensus after that is that a lot of folks don't care for the Flo & Eddie era stuff that's dialogue-heavy, but even with that, there is a large contingent of Zappa fans who love that stuff.

Personally, I love Thing-Fish and Francesco Zappa, I like most of the early "Studio Z" etc. stuff fairly well (and I friggin love The Lost Episodes, which has a fair amount of that early stuff), and with the Flo & Eddie era, while I tend to agree that it doesn't work that well when it's more or less just dialogue--for example, there's a sizable chunk of Ahead of Their Time that gets too dialogue-heavy in my opinion--it's like you're listening to a play for 10 minutes or so, most of the Flo & Eddie releases has enough musical content that I like it despite the dialogue slow-downs, and some Flo & Eddie era releases are among my favorites, especially 200 Motels.

 

If my copy of Man From Utopia got stolen it would be a good while before I felt a need to replace it. But I would not want to never have heard it.

 

Don't know why but I love this album the most. Its goofy, tomfoolery, funky music makes it an enjoyful listen.

 

I like them better than most of his earlier albums and some of the later ones.

 

P.S. if we could delete Magdalena and Jazz Discharge Party Hats from my memory it would enhance my overall appreciation of FZ.

 

I guess to go back and answer the question you should have at least one album that represents all of his various bands/eras. The next step is to figure out what those are. Once you find the era(s) you enjoy most by streaming some samples you can start buying albums.If you hate the sound of the 88 band or the Flo & Eddie years then Those aren't essential for you.

 

Not a fan in the slightest but even I love Hot Rats and Overnite Sensation

 

No munching eclairs for you?

 

For me, "I Come From Nowhere" is primo stuff. One of the best Zappa bass lines of any tune in my opinion, and a its a candidate for my favorite Zappa guitar solo, too. I love that album in general, though. And yeah, the title track is fantastic.

 

Nonsense! It has a trenchant diatribe against people of the pojama persuasion.

 

Put Thing Fish in the bin. Forever.

 

If you still "struggle" with Zappa after listening to all those albums and if you are looking for a direction what you should listen next, then I am inclined to say that Zappa probably is not for you now.

Someone advised you to follow the track of albums you liked and search for their relatives.

My favourites not on your list:
Uncle Meat
200 Motels
Helsinki Concert
Overnight Sensation
Zoot Allures
Yellow Shark

 

well put, 93curr

Ship Arriving is one of my later favorites, not because of "Valley Girl" (!), but because of the playing and composition on "Drowning Witch"-- and "No Not Now", which is somehow one of my VERY FAVORITE SONGS of his. I can't help but pogo dance when I hear it.. Anyway, I'd consider The Man From Utopia quite a mixed bag, both stylistically and quality speaking, but "The Dangerous Kitchen" is certainly worth a chuckle-- and the album does contain one of my very favorite FZ instrumentals, the one and only "Moggio".

 

This whole exercize appears to be created for the benefit of the newb fan who is immediately overwhelmed by an artist with so many releases; who knows where they got the idea that they should avail themselves to "some Zappa", they only know that they "want some". Of course, NObody would try and be an obsessive out of the box, or even consider themselves obsessive at this stage, right? So, first comes the obvious question: "I love '___________', so what should I get next? Then the newb will be overwhelmed by the myriad answers from all these Zappa "shamans", all helpfully answereing as if in one voice: 35 different suggestions. Okay, no clarity there, huh. Let's try it another way: which do you think are the most significant, essential releases? And, like a bolt of lightning out of the sky, as if in one voice the Zappaphiles come back: "ALL of 'EM!" Once again, heyyyy, howww helllpfuulllll..

Okay, let's try chopping the pie up another way - maybe we can get some concensus from identifying the most essential, and the least essential...? Buuut...what do I buy, next...?
"OH hey, I KNOW!" No, I KNOW BETTER! Trust me-" "DON'T lissen to them, I KNOW JUST what your're lookin' f-" "NO, listen to ME...!" "NO, MEEEE!"
Lather*, rinse, repeat.

Now the way I see it, ya can't trust a Zappa fanatic on this, because you can obviously see, well, they're fanatics. You're just starting out, but you want some advice from someone (to your mind) rational, who's tried a few, liked 'em, then gone back to his Doors and his Meaghan Traynor and his Varese, and can relate to you with some semblance of perspective. But, the casual fans are in short supply, because not only do people for the most part have a pretty definite love for Frank, or so little affinity that (how dare they), they've still got a positive perspective of him within the framework of those who (shockers) still dwell outside The Big Note.

And even if you did want to ask just the casual fan, they're not likely to respond in a Zappa thread, being so gobsmacked by all the flotsam and jetsam retained in the cranium of the Zappa acolytes, that they fear posting something mostly true, and being called out ("BLASHPMER!") and shamed by the FZ scholars for being a mere decimal point or two off. (To demonstrate, try starting a thread here entitled, "Francesco Zappa"...and see how many irrelevant posts displaying an encyclopedic knowlege of All Things Frank start popping out, before you see one actually talking about Francisco. It's like challenging Pacholski on a statement he's made about the Beatles: a zero-sum game, mutually-assured dysfunction.

The problem with Zappa fanatics opening-up threads on their favorite subjects is, they all end up agreeting with each other at the top of their lungs. Except, when it comes to helping non-fanatics choose their own way into the clubhouse; they can't relate.

So, my dear newbs, if you're really looking for a fast track into how to know juuuuussstt enough about Zappa to form an opinion, my suggestion to you is...pick one. With your eyes closed, and Step Away From The Advice Threads. Just pick one, procure one...and then just listen to it over and over, until it doesn't sound weird anymore.

This may take some time. We'll wait.


(*Sorry, I couldn't help myself!)

 

Hey guys, I'm looking to buy One Shot Deal https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001E45T0C/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

To anyone that listened to this album, how does care with you?

 

Everything up to 1970.