Expanded Procol Harum reissues (2015)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by sharedon, Apr 20, 2015.

  1. stetsonic

    stetsonic Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Kouvola, Finland
    I only have the Westside 30th Anniversary box so don't take my word for it but there's some in-depth discussion on the matter in this very thread. The Salvo version of "Shine On Brightly" (and, to a lesser degree, the first album) apparently runs too fast while the Esoteric does not so they're most definitely different transfers (and unique masterings, for that matter).
     
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  2. originalsnuffy

    originalsnuffy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upper Midwest, USA
    A number of the releases in the last twenty years claim to be from original master tapes. Clearly there a differences in EQ and in the case of the first two Salvos speed differences. For the first four I think the westsides and esoterics are pretty good. I like the salvos a bit more than the repertoire releases from broken barricades on. A number of people like MFSL versions the best but I do not concur
     
  3. eelkiller

    eelkiller Technically right but still wrong

    They are not clones of the Salvos. Newly remastered,
     
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  4. originalsnuffy

    originalsnuffy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upper Midwest, USA
    Yes, I think Esoteric has done a great job and look forward to the new box. I also think the track selection for the previously released material is good.

    I still think they should reconsider what is being released on the forthcoming boxed set, and add back the 1971 radio concert (and known as Shine on Live and the Elusive Procol Harum) and possibly KZEW 1974 if it exists in decent reels. The bootlegs of both are very listenable. Or maybe make those available via FLAC downloads.

    I do have a good CD version of the Hollywood Bowl 73 which is being released as it came out as a King Biscuit Flower Hour broadcast and some CDs made for distributing the broadcast found their way onto the collectors market. I know because I bought one via Goldmine many years ago.

    Actually I don't think the full broadcast tapes of the Hollywood Bowl show exist anymore which is a shame; but what was broadcast was good. I remember a great version of Piggy Pig Pig at the concert. I was 15 years old at the time and was there. The sound at the concert was poor but the performance was good and the radio broadcast trounced the sound at the actual concert event. Much better than the real thing!

    I do have boots of everything that is being released, audio and video, but look forward to plunking down cash for improved official releases.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  5. weaselriot

    weaselriot Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    Any opinions on the new (2017) AUSSIE WSOP LP (NOT the 2017 RSD on MOV LP, which sticks with the usual UK tracklist on blue Fly label)? THIS 2017 Aussie is on some unknown Aussie label, licensed by Fly, with the North American tracklist (WOOHOO!!!), the poster (WOOHOO!!), and tipped-on shirtboard cover which does NOT say stereo ("electronically processed" or otherwise) anywhere on the cover, front or back.

    BUT the disc inside says "Stereo" (PFFFFFTTT), though I wonder with such a small label whether it really is fake stereo or they just used their standard label template or made a mistake. After all, if the label is correct, then the cover must be a mistake (no mention of stereo), but also vice versa, meaning the label could be a mistake and the cover correct. And why would Fly all of a sudden license out fake stereo to this one label, just this one time, after so many years (actually decades) of repeatedly licensing the mono to Cube, Repertoire, Westside, Salvo, Esoteric, and the Japanese?

    If anyone knows anything about this, I sure would appreciate info. I can't play mine right now (Thorens in the shop and getting a new cart). Worst case scenario is that I paid $38.00 for a sealed copy on eBay with international shipping and at least the poster inside, which has been hard to find in perfect condition. For this title, especially with the North American tracklist (no "Clack", who should stay in Davy Jones' locker so far as I am concerned), I am ALWAYS willing to take a flyer. That way I only have to get up once to cue past "Mabel" midway through the 1st side, but not the 2d side with "Conquistador" back where it belongs.

    Besides, fake stereo is the only way I ever knew the US WSOP until the CD era. It was technically available in US mono (I suppose by special order no return) on original release, but no retailer I knew of was carrying it, since the joint RCA-Columbia announcement of the beginning of mono phaseout (25 May 1967 Billboard) was some three months earlier than it's September 1967 US release. I spent a Saturday afternoon that September with the college football game on and the sound off, fruitlessly calling retailer after retailer through the Yellow Pages about the mono. No dice. I guess the retailers (mostly Main Street Mom and Pops in that era before chains) couldn't jump on that stereo only bandwagon fast enough. For years I quixotically (and almost reflexively) headed straight for the Procol Harum section every time I went into a record store before starting my standard bin browse, just on the off chance of maybe finding a stray orphaned mono. That includes The Record Hunter as a visitor in New York in May 1969 (which is how I found out about "A Salty Dog", which I gladly purchased along with "Gilded Palace of Sin"). I just KNEW that there HAD to be a mono version (if only for the sole purpose of making a fake stereo version from it). But I never once saw a North American mono. Ever. Anywhere. Even browsing collections of friends, roommates and dorm neighbors in high school and college produced the same result. "Electronically processed" on the top left. I finally gave up about 1973 when A&M reissued WSOP, adding "Clack" to the usual North American tracklist, and in continued fake stereo to boot.
     
  6. originalsnuffy

    originalsnuffy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upper Midwest, USA
    In my days of vinyl grazing I always stopped by the Procol section. There were always a few cut out copies of the firms album on Deram; but I can't remember if they were ever mono. Must admit I thought they were mono but my personal copies are long gone. The A&M re-release was definitely rechanneled stereo.

    In the day you could purchase the Fly label collection confusingly called "A Salty Dog" for a mere $2.00. It sounded great. And the first album on Deram could be found for $2.00 also; but with a punch out and I don't think a poster was included. Also Journey's End by Matthew could be found cheap. Along with Stones light aka Jamming with Edward.
     
  7. weaselriot

    weaselriot Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    New release mono was increasingly hard to get in the US after late May 1967 when the US mono phaseout was announced in Billboard magazine. Even Sgt. Pepper's was available only in stereo at the stores I could get to by bike (being only 14), and that was just a week after the announcement in Billboard. If the mostly mom and pop retailers didn't read about it in Billboard, one can be certain that the distributors clued them in anyway. But I didn't mind buying the stereo for all titles after that, because that announcement also decreed that stereo records could now safely be played on most newer mono players as well, and they would now become the same price as mono anyway. That was all I needed to hear. What did anyone know about different mixes back then? I intuitively assumed that where any title was released in true stereo the labels just folded it down for the mono version (it never occurred to me then that profit-conscious labels would spend time and money just to bother with two mixes). And I hadn't seen a title in fake stereo since Cryan Shames "Sugar and Spice" (Columbia) in 1966.

    However, that US PH debut stood out like a sore thumb, because it alone among 1967 releases prominently announced on the cover that it was fake stereo, which I just couldn't stand based on previous experience. And fake stereo meant that there just HAD to be a mono version (how otherwise to even MAKE a fake stereo?). So it became an almost obsessive quest for me, unlike any other title, right from the day of release. I should have special ordered the mono then, but I figured I would find one soon enough if I kept looking. I never did, nor did any single person I knew of who had the album. Based on that, my guess is that the cutouts you saw were also the fake stereo, since any mono copies would have had to spend time in the bins before they became cutouts. Perhaps some of the mono special order stock ended up as cutouts too, but I never saw any. I didn't stop looking among new stock until about 1973 when A&M reissued, adding "Clack" to the US tracklist and an ugly thick purple border around the cover art. That's when I knew it was "game over", except for the used bins. I never saw a single US mono there either. Not even in a college town with a large Big Ten university (Madison). I ALWAYS checked.

    About 1991, as the Soviet Union was beginning to break up, I had a brief rush of excitement as the first Russian mono pressings started turning up. They were mono ("Yes!!!"), but flipping to back of the jacket they were UK tracklist as well (sigh). Not long after, I could get a mono CD that included WSOP at least as a bonus track, so that I could use my remote to play the US tracklist, jettisoning not only "Clack", but "Mabel" as well. That's when I finally stopped looking even in used record stores. I finally landed a minty Canadian mono (with same US tracklist) years later on eBay, and even later a sealed Classic (UK tracklist, except "Clack" bounced, "Conquistador" back to side 2, and "Homburg" instead leading off side 1, with an included WSOP single in both mono and true stereo, and really good sound to boot). As soon as I get my turntable back, I'll try out this new 2017 180g US tracklist Aussie that just arrived. The cover is consistent with mono, but the label inside says stereo. Either one or the other has to be an error. I'm hoping it's the label. But since it was licensed by Fly (as the Salvo had been), it will likely be cut from digital. and I will need to check for speed issues as well.

    In truth, I should point out that I still enjoyed album immensely (my favorite track, "Cerdes", with those killer guitar breaks rivaling later work by David Gilmour) even in fake stereo. The Deram fake stereo was much less aggressive ( and therefore much less objectionable) than the fake stereo commonly employed on US recorded titles, particularly Capitol's Duophonic. So could live with it, especially since I had to anyway.
     
  8. soundQman

    soundQman Idealist of the Musical Apocalypse

    Location:
    Arlington, VA, USA
    Fake stereo records created by simply having different equalization left to right (bass vs. treble), instead of messing with the phasing, could be tolerable when the channels were summed to mono via system hardware. Example: Beatles' Magical Mystery Tour LP.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  9. weaselriot

    weaselriot Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    Also phasing, time delay to desynchronize of channels, sometimes drenching in reverb. Capitol Duophonic was one of the worst. The name should have alerted buyers, but some undoubtedly thought that Duophonic was just Capitol's trade name for stereo. Unlistenable on any gear. The Brits were generally less aggressive with it. Even some Yardbirds fake stereo summed decently to mono.
     
  10. originalsnuffy

    originalsnuffy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upper Midwest, USA
    I have a FLY double LP of the first album and Salty Dog. I am pretty sure that the first album is Mono on that. I am out of town right now but will check it out tomorrow.
     

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