Fake tubes, what to look out for!

This has probably been discussed before, but I am wondering what are the tell tale signs ( if any) of fake tubes. Most of us have seen the NOS Telefunkens, Siemens, Amperex tubes that are on the market and are highly prized. Question is...how many of these tubes are in fact real...and not a well made fake from someone who has seen an opportunity to profit on the a'phile community. Since most of the better known varieties of the tubes mentioned above can- and do fetch some serious money, i question how one can tell a fake from the real thing. Remembering that re-creating logos and even etchings is fairly easy to do for someone with the correct equipment.

So, is that Telefunken NOS CCa and the like real, or someone's little money making play????

Thoughts..........

 

Real Telefunken have a diamond on the base in-between the pins.

 

All of them???

Plus can this also not be replicated

 

I am fairly sure all Telefunken have the diamond. I know 12AX7s have it. It would be very difficult to make a diamond on glass as it is raised. As for other tubes it takes time and experience to know what the insides should look like.

 

Great questions!!!

Not only tubes, but there are tons of counterfeit, expensive cables from brands like Siltech in Asia.

Buyer beware!

 

[QUOTE

So, is that Telefunken NOS CCa and the like real, or someone's little money making play????

Thoughts..........[/QUOTE]

For an expensive tube like the Telefunken CCa, see trusted sellers like Brent Jessie in Chicago, IL.

 

This.

There have been attempts to fake the base diamonds by engraving. If the diamond symbol is raised, it has so far been considered a safe indicator that the tube is genuine.

 

Liking NOS Japanese tubes like I do has many advantages, they use to be dead quiet and sound nice, they don't break the cash as they're usually cheap and nobody will bother counterfeiting them.

 

Indeed, there are numerous reports of fake Nordost cables out there.
I believe someone was actually faking Mark Levinson gear.
This aspect seems to hit all areas of music--- The well known Chinese fakes of the famous Gibson Les Paul guitar have cost
many folks dearly!

 

Yes, Nordost is a big one for counterfeiting. Perhaps their ludicrous pricing make them easy targets.

As always, if it is too good to be true...

 

Actually, I believe their lower priced cables are well priced and give decent value for money. What you said about their top line cable, that I would have to agree with.

 

Yes, of course. It would not be worth counterfeiting the affordable stuff, the pay off is in the middle to top priced products.

Hey to be fair, all of the European luxury brands like Gucci, Prada etc are also faked.

 

Yes, so far as I know. This is not an easy thing to replicate. On the real ones this logo is raised out of the glass. On the most convincing fakes, they laser etch the logo down into the glass.

So a difference can be seen, if you know what you are looking for.

 

Actual

Yes, the laser-etched diamond is reversed, so to speak. On the originals, it protrudes out from the surface of the glass. On the fakes, it is etched into the glass surface. I haven't experienced a fake myself, but apparently it should be detectable if one pries the diamond ridges with a needle.

 

Has anybody ever bought or even seen a definitely fake tube? I've heard all the stories of the fake tube mills, but I don't think I've ever seen tubes I felt were fake. Modern tubes have so much stainless steel and plastic in them, and generally look too clean. Compared to a real tube with serrated mica plates, worn labels, oxidization, and just a general different construction and look. I'm thinking signal tubes, maybe power tubes are a different story?

The only time I've ever suspected getting fake tubes were some Brimars that look too perfect, but doing some research I think the later era Brimars looked awfully fake themselves:

 

Well, I think the question is whether anybody has bought or seen a tube that they knew to be fake ... AFAIK many of the faked tubes are NOS tubes that are relabeled. So they look old because they are old, and then you have to be an expert to spot whether they are the real deal.

 

There's lots of Van Den Hul wire on eBay from Asian vendors, looks suspicious to me.

 

It's easy to spot fakes, once you learn the internal construction. The hard part is, learning the internal construction. There are a few identifying factors I look for when buying tubes for my guitar amps:

* Mullard UK EL34 - etched codes XF1, XF2, XF3 or XF4

* Siemens / RFT EL34 - dimple on the top of the glass

* Telefunken ecc83 (12AX7)- raised diamond on the bottom (already mentioned)

* Mullard UK ecc83 (12AX7) - etched codes I61, I62, or I63 followed underneath by four characters if the tube was manufactured after 1960 or three characters prior to this date. The first character represents the factory code (B - Blackburn, G - Fleetwood, J - Tottenham, R - Mitchum, X or Y - Phillips Holland). The second character indicates the year of manufacture. Tubes manufactured during the late 1960s into the 70s were marked with the engineering change code ‘I63′. The third character indicates the month of manufacture (A for January through L for December). And the fourth character is the week of that month.

And here are some USA EIA Codes found on common USA made tubes:

Amperex (USA) - 111

Bendix - 125

DuMont - 158

General Electric Co (USA) - 188

Hytron (CBS-Hytron) - 210

RCA (Radio Corp of America) - 274

Raytheon - 280

Sylvania (Hygrade Sylvania Corp) - 312

Tung-Sol - 322

Western Electric - 336

Westinghouse - 337

Zenith Radio Corp - 343

Philips Corp (North America) - 423

National Electronics - 749

 

yup, caveat emptor

 

Before I throw down serious cash for an expensive tube, I usually ask one of my friends to look at the auction or site pictures first. He's been collecting audio tubes since the mid-1980s and has owned most of the variations of Telefunken, Mullards, the rare CCa, pinchwaists, GEC, Phillips, etc and can tell me if they are real.

In some cases there are some obvious tell-tales - the type of getter ring/cup, or the pins. Also the plates or even the writing on the tube. Most fakes are going to be rather common tubes - like Russian, Yugo, or Chinese - which will be obvious if you've handled enough of them.

But if the deal seems to good to be true, then it probably is!

 

Exactly.

 

Hello Audio Experts!

I have some Telefunken tubes with NO DIAMOND on the bottom. Other features are as such:
-White labels down one side: Telefunken, ECC801s, 71041, & 6201 on the top cap area of opposite side.
-Triple mica, but I can see through the top mica like it is a clear plastic disk.
-Probably short black dull plates, 'D' getters.
-One has two support rods between the two lower micas, the other doesn't.
-one has little silver 'plates' between the middle & top micas, the other with two pair of two little rods between top & middle mica plates.

I wish I could post pictures....

TIA! Murf

 

A Siemens tube would have one of these on the bottom wouldn't it?