Farewell to OPPO Digital

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by SamS, Apr 2, 2018.

  1. mongo

    mongo Senior Member

    Speaking of mods and measurements.
    I know there is a segment of folks that only care about subjective listening and certainly is valid to a point.
    If you like or don't like the way a piece of gears sounds, you don't give a rip about measurements.

    But the fact is every manufacturer measures their gear during the design process.
    There are valid reasons for this.
    While measurements don't tell the whole story they do reveal critical aspects of performance like distortion & bit resolution just to name 2.

    Measuring certain highly regarded DACS shows that they only have 18-bits of resolution and have wonky performance
    Any high res player must do 20-bits otherwise you're not getting what you paid for with 24/96 content.
    Might as well stick with CDs which is fine.

    I totally understand people not liking or preferring other players to the Oppo but the measurements do prove out that as far as performance
    the 205 has inaudible distortion and is able to accurately resolve what it is fed.

    It's the same for vinyl and tubes.
    Lots of folks like that sound, just don't pretend it's a more accurate portrayal of what's being played because it ain't.
     
  2. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Well said! I agree 100% and no matter how Oppo handled it some were not going to be happy. Even after Oppo announced they were shutting down places like Best Buy and Crutchfield had 203s and 205s in stock. Some unfortunately waited and then all the stock was gone.
     
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  3. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I guess we are interested in commenting on how the company dealt with the situation because it happens so rarely.
     
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  4. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    You should probably clarify, for folks who haven't followed this thread or saga as closely as some of us, that the guy who bought a dozen 205s didn't buy them direct from Oppo during this final production run. If I recall correctly, he was one of a handful of people who bought a bunch at a time from Magnolia Design Centers back in April before the retail channels dried up. And if I recall correctly, Magnolia started instituting a one-per-customer rule not long after that. (And before you point out that you didn't actually claim that particular guy bought his 205s direct from Oppo - yes, yes, I understand that. That's why I said you should clarify the statement, and I didn't say you should correct it.)

    As for Oppo, it is possible that some people might have been able to purchase two 205s instead of one during these final production runs, by using different email addresses, credit cards, billing addresses, or whatever. But I see no direct evidence of that, and I don't know whether or not Oppo actually has allowed anyone to circumvent their rule - and neither do you.

    (There appear to be some folks in this thread who did get more than one, but unless I'm mistaken - always possible! - those folks got their additional 205(s) before Oppo's final runs and/or from other outlets. In other words, it does not appear that they got multiple 205s direct from Oppo since the final purchase period began in June.)

    As for your claim that you have no dog in this hunt and that you're not complaining, I'd say that the frequency and persistence of your posted comments on this point - and on many other points in this thread, about which you have similarly protested both your disinterest and your puzzlement at the responses your supposedly dispassionate comments have generated - indicate your interest level accurately enough.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2018
  5. grbl

    grbl Just Lurking

    Location:
    Long Island
    By the way, I registered two emails on the same day and verified both on the same day. I was not planning to sell one of them. I wanted to keep them both. I received one email to purchase, so they do seem to be trying fairly hard to stick to their one per customer limit.
     
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  6. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    There was a detailed technical report on the 105 with the modright tube mod, playing a high res file it couldn't reproduce more than 12 bit resolution.
    Backed up by the numbers. So why do this to a 205?
    Beave
     
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  7. RnRmf

    RnRmf Senior Member

    Location:
    Orlando, FL and NJ
    I purchased a Modwright 105D (directly from Modwright) but sold it soon after and purchased a stock 105D from Oppo and was much happier. It was definitely not to my taste, and I was surprised, since I prefer a laid back, relaxed, but resolute sound aka "not forward sounding."

    I didn't see the report you quote but it might explain my experience, it if it's true. Honestly, it's almost unbelievable given the reviews.
     
  8. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!


    You nailed it!!!
    Beave
     
  9. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Aye, whatever. We can agree to disagree on that one easily enough. Just proves one can't remotely come close to saying anything even vaguely against them and the Oppo police come running!! :cop::cop::cop:

    And you're right, of course, that I don't know they didn't validate against previous orders by referencing against addresses, but why so keen to jump and down that they might not and my expressing surprise they mightn't have done?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  10. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    The report was ridiculous. The reviewer never stated it was a Modwright mod and the reviewer never gave their real name. You are propagating false information. How does a mod of the power supply and output stage change bits in the digital domain. The DACs in are kept intact in the Modwright mods.

    @rbbert may be able to explain the Oppo Modwright mods. He has both the 105 and 205.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
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  11. tmtomh

    tmtomh Forum Resident

    You are correct that the reviewer never stated it was a Modwright mod. That does not, however, mean that the report was ridiculous. Quite the contrary: the report supplied measurements that can be read and easily understood by anyone.

    As for your question, "How does a mod of the power supply and output stage change bits in the digital domain" - as you know, we don't listen to bits in the digital domain. Of necessity, we listen to the analogue conversion of those bits, routed through the output stage aka the analogue stage. That's the entire point of the mod, after all - to change the sound.

    The point of the report was that the mods made to the output stage raised the noise floor of the unit. Because bit-depth corresponds to signal-to-noise ratio aka noise floor, the mod reduced the effective bit-depth/resolution of the Oppo compared to its stock state. If memory serves, the modded unit's noise floor was around -85dB, give or take, or approximately a 20dB reduction in the unit's effective dynamic range, as I think a stock Oppo 105's noise floor is around -105dB. My numbers could be a off by a little, I'm going by memory.

    If you or anyone else prefers the sound of the Oppo with a Modwright mod or any other mod, that's cool - the entire point is to listen to stuff in a way that pleases us, and neither I nor anyone else gets to tell you which version of the Oppo you should prefer.

    But your claim that the report was ridiculous is not supported by evidence, and your rhetorical question about changes in the output stage does not take into account how the signal path actually works.
     
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  12. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    Listening to the Hotel California DVD-A on my new 205.
    Anybody who says this sounds like a$$ is, in my view, a prime candidate for an update of The Emperor's New Clothes.
    To each his own, I guess.
    Spreading false information.
     
  13. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Here is the whole report:

    Archimago's Musings: MUSINGS: Thoughts on audio device "modding" (eg. a tube modded Oppo BDP-105). [New Oppo UDP-205 firmware out with MQA USB-B...]

    He's pretty balanced and his tech specs speak for themselves. Of course there are those who call him an amateur kook and such, but again his spec's seem spot on.

    beave
     
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  14. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    thank you for this.
    I will now put you on my ignore list.
    beave
     
  15. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Yes, absolutely. Him and NWAVGuy - the latter retired I think but the site is still active. Excellent reference sites.
     
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  16. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
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  17. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Good!
     
  18. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Why are you ignoring my follow up posts to that comment?
     
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  19. RnRmf

    RnRmf Senior Member

    Location:
    Orlando, FL and NJ
    WOW.

    A couple of years ago, I was somewhat less restrained in my feelings on the Modwright mod when people requested feedback about the player in forums I frequent BUT those measurements are on par with the delta I experienced between the sound of the modded 105D and the stock 105D.

    It wasn't for lack of trying. I tube rolled. I contacted Modwright for suggestions. I don't exaggerate when I write how "wrong" it sounded in my system. It didn't sound analog, it sounded broken.
     
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  20. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    I'm not. You called the article critical of the Modwright mods "ridiculous."
    Is that the one to which you are referring?
    Reminds me of the Great Green Marker Movement, just way more expensive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
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  21. I am friendly (over the Internet, anyway) with Dan Wright. He puts a lot of care and development into his mods and circuit designs, and voicing them. The entire mod business (not just Modwright) for the most part is not centered on improving the specs of a product, but rather in tailoring the sound in such a way as to make digital sound more “analog.” The tube and transformer-based output stages could (and probably does) add distortion but it is usually of the euphoric third-order type.
     
  22. nightenrock

    nightenrock Forum Resident

    Are you sure it is the bank and not the merchant that's on the hook?
     
  23. grbl

    grbl Just Lurking

    Location:
    Long Island
    The rules around this end up being a bit complicated and depend on the specific circumstances. Depending on the situation it can be either the bank or the merchant or a combination that eats the loss. For example, in order to "encourage" merchants to move from magnetic stripe card terminals to chip terminals (which are much more secure), Visa and Mastercard issued rules that shifted fraud losses occurring from magnetic strip card terminals to the merchants with those terminals.
     
  24. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Thanks, you said it better than I could have. I understand the 205 mod is quite a different beast in terms of noise floor etc.
     
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  25. Dang iPhone autocorrect. It’s supposed to read euphonic third-order distortion, although I imagine the effect could be euphoric as well!!!
     
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