Favorite Power Tube?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by russk, Oct 4, 2015.

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  1. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Hi Richard,

    I like a lot of SET amps too (I own a pair of Audionote Kageki amps), but, I don't think that any particular amp type is necessarily superior to another. My other primary amp is a pushpull amp (5 watt amp using two 349 tubes per channel) that is better in some ways than the Kageki, and not as good in other ways. One of the VERY best amps I've heard is a custom-built OTL amp, yet another different type. Another REALLY nice amp happens to be one of the oldest amps and it is quite special--a Western Electric 59 amp that was built around 1929 and uses the 252 tube in pushpull configuration. A single amp 59 amp (i.e. mono) is posted on ebay for $88,888.88 (looks like one of those bogus prices, but it really isn't far off from what the amp could fetch), so there is your chance to hear that amp, although only in mono unless you have another lying around.

    The Gaku-On and Ongaku you mention are also quite a nice amps. Audionote had another amp that did not make the regular list of their offering, the Sogon, so I don't know if it was a very limited edition, and that too is a VERY nice amp. I recall that it used one of those transmitting tube and had a thoriated tungsten filament (emitted a bright white light); it might have been a 211 type as well. A friend once had the Wyetech 211 amp (older version that sourced output transformers from Audionote) that I really liked in his system (never tried it in mine). I thought he made a big mistake selling it, but, he goes through more stuff than I do. I also got to hear in his system a nice Viva amp that had a really odd combination of tubes; it used twin 211s as RECTIFIERS and used two 845s as output tubes (stereo in single-ended configuration). Viva makes great gear as well, but, they do the strangest things with their power supplies; my Viva Fono (phonostage) uses twin 300B tubes as rectifiers.

    Not too long ago, I heard an amp that used the 417 tube in pushpull configuration that also sounded very good. I had heard that tube before used in a DAC, but, otherwise, I have not heard it before. It is yet another of many output tube out there that, when properly implemented, can really deliver beautiful sound.

    I agree with you about the EL84 in the OTO. It certainly sounded good driving the Audionote and Harbeth speakers I heard it hooked up to and does not go for crazy money.
     
  2. Thermionic Dude

    Thermionic Dude Forum Resident

    I always wondered about that E.A.R. amp which used a bunch (24 I think) of 12AX7 for the output stage for 25-30 wpc. I remember thinking the idea was intriguing, but the fact that there are significantly more solder connections and passive components than in a typical amp with 2-4 output tubes made me wonder about transparency and long-term reliability (not to mention the difficulty of getting 48 matched triode sections - hopefully that isn't necessary).
     
  3. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I think the 219IA is the best of their integrated amps - being dual mono there is no stereo crosstalk or bleed through - the noise floor is lower - like zero. It has a wider band frequency IME with beefier bass and more extended top end. I don't find the heat to be that noticeable but to be fair I live in the incredibly humid Hong Kong and we have air conditioners in every room. But even in normal climate whether without air conditioning it is not that bad. I have not purchased any additional 310A as yet. LM makes them with PSVANE I believe so there should be enough of them - the tubestore also sells them. But might be worth it to pick up some just in case.

    After hearing it as a dedicated power amp - I was impressed how big the sound transformers with three different preamps. The weak spot of most integrated amp is the preamp stage. Alone it is very good. I reviewed it for dagogo http://www.dagogo.com/line-magnetic-219ia-integrated-amplifier-review I wish they had put some of the excellent pictures with the review but so it goes.
     
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  4. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Well this is true - each tube type tends to have strengths and weaknesses so you might get 75% of your music spot on with one amp - but the other amp does 25% of the collection better. The top Meishu and the Jinro are within the ballpark price wise and to me sound wildly different. Well they have been selling both amps for a LOOOOONG time and thus have fans in both camps.

    The thing is most people are probably only buying one (maybe two) amplifiers so you have to make the choice - I choose the Jinro because it is more of an all rounder IMO and can take on higher impact (complex) music better. That's probably true over the Empress/Kageki - but the Empress somethin somethin that the Jinro doesn't capture. So if you can only buy one - it makes the choices harder.

    When comparing amplifiers the tubes come into play as well. My Line Magnetic 219IA ships with $150 845 tubes - the Jinro comes with $2,000 Elrogs. So when you make comparisons you have to be wary of it being apples to apples.

    It should be pointed out when we say "best" that this is also a personal take and or bias/predisposition to certain thing. My number one criteria is "does it emotionally involve me" (goosebump factor) and if it does that it is immediately put into the A-list - if it doesn't I don't care what else it does - it can be the most expensive best measuring thing in the world - it goes into the "I'm not going to buy it pile" of B-List on down. Obviously with a price element taken into account. The OTO to me is the best bang for dollar thing that Audio Note makes. Plus it's built nicely using good parts - pretty hefty and looks posh enough. Plus the tubes last ages and are cheap to replace and best of all - auto-biases and can be converted to any voltage worldwide - nice.

    Can a Push Pull do the same - possibly - the I-Zero is pretty awesome and it is Push Pull - heck so is the OTO PP. But still - I keep thinking - what if they make an I-Zero SE? The SE OTO stomps the OTO PP - hmmmm.
     
  5. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    These days, my primary amp is the 349 pushpull amp (basically a modern build of a Western Electric 133 using a lot of vintage parts, including the correct, original, western electric input and output transformers). I like the very natural and harmonically rich midrange and punchy bass of this amp. The Kageki, with the right tubes in it, has a better top end than the WE133, and while the bass is not as tight and powerful, the bass has a tunefulness that I like; it tends to vary more with the music instead of having the kind of "sameness" (mechanical quality) I often hear in pushpull amps. Both the Kageki and the WE133 truly excel at sounding dynamic and full at quite low listening levels (an important quality for my taste/purposes). I have not tried the Kageki as a 45 amp; a friend of mine uses it that way and likes the result a lot. He also runs it as a 220 volt amp and my local dealer endorses that as well.

    I have heard your Line Magnetic amp in a dealer system with Devore O 96 speakers. The system sounded quite good, but I liked it a little more when a Ongaku was put into the system instead. Yes, there is a BIG difference in price, but, there are enough buyers willing to pay the difference for small improvements, which is how the high end keeps going.

    Yesterday, I got to hear an interesting single ended pentode amp that uses a tube I am not familiar with (sorry I cannot recall the number; it was a four digit number starting with 7). The local dealer that sells Audio Note in my area also makes, or has exclusive arrangements with builders for a wide array of tube linestages, phonostages, amps, DACs and crossovers. This new amp is a very compact, reasonably inexpensive amp (selling for around $2,000) that sounded very good driving AN-E SEC speakers (crazy disparity in price!).

    The choices, and new things to hear and enjoy seem almost limitless.
     
  6. vinylkid58

    vinylkid58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Victoria, B.C.
    7027? Could be confused physically with a 6L6GC.

    jeff
     
  7. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    jeff,

    The tube is small and looks more like a slightly fatter EL84. It has a pronounced tip on the top of the tube. It does not look like a 6L6. I was told the number for the tube, but just completely forgot what it was (and just yesterday too).
     
  8. russk

    russk Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Great review. That thing is a beast. I would love to hear it. I have limited experience with 845s, 211s and the like. Will definitely have to check it out. I've been thinking about springing for the LM218ia.
     
  9. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    I'd really love to know how the 218 compares to the 518. As a general rule, the "gold" (orange) LM's have better part selection, but that's not the case with the 219 and I have a feeling it might not with the 218 either. I'm not sure what the price difference is either.

    What I do know is the 218 looks close enough to my 211 that I could probably sneak it in without my wife noticing its a different amp. :)
     
  10. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
  11. vinylkid58

    vinylkid58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Victoria, B.C.
    That would describe the 7868 pretty well. A neat little pentode with a slightly larger base than an EL84, but with the same plate dissipation as a 6L6G.

    jeff
     
  12. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    vinylkid58,

    I think you are correct; I did not notice, until now, that it was actually on the list for voting. The single-ended amp built with this tube sounded very lively and had a somewhat pronounced midrange ("forward sounding"), not unlike an EL84 amp, but never sounded harsh or brittle. From the survey list, I voted for the 6L6, although I have heard decent amps utilizing most of the listed types. The list appears to be limited to tetrode/pentode types, of which I like the 349 and 350 where low power is not a problem.
     
  13. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    :D



    -Bill
     
  14. Waxxy

    Waxxy Cold Turkey

    Location:
    Alberta
    Same tube, different amp. I use the 6N3CE in a singled ended configuration (see my avatar). Superior to the EL34, 6CA7 and KT77 I've tried in the same amp. The only other type of power tube I've tried is the KT88 in a Prima Luna, and overall I preferred the EL34 family of tubes.
     
  15. Dream On

    Dream On Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I have an EL34 amp (Audio Space Galaxy 34, running stock tubes). I really love the sound but I'd like a bit more extended bass and a bit less snarl - which I gather is a quality of EL34 tubes. The amp will take KT77, 6L6GC, and KT66 tubes. I figure moving to new production Gold Lion KT66 tubes will take me where I want to go. Any thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  16. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Just as an aside, one of my favorite DIY creations was a pentode single-ended amplifier. The driver was an 5687, while the output was a pentode, but with regulated screens.
    http://6streetbridge.blogspot.com/2013/11/project-mult-valve-universal-pentode.html

    Unlike many SE amps, this one had adjustable bias which allowed one to adjust for many, many popular output tubes. It was interesting to hear the sheer differences between types, and even different brands of the same tube. For example, the Shuguang EL34B was really rolled off, a but murky, but still enjoyable. The Mullard XF2 had much of the same warm character but with better detail. The king - at least in this application - was the Dutch Philips, which just had tremendous treble detail, pacing, and was on top of the heap of all the tubes I tried.

    Other winners were the Tung Sol 6550 and a pair of old GEC KT77s, which balanced in sound between the 6550 and the Philips. The Chinese GEKT88 was actually pretty good too, just lacking some finesse over the NOS stuff.

    I actively disliked some new tubes - like the Sovtek 5881 (solid-state in a bottle!) and a pair of Chinese 350Bs, which just sounded weird and undefined. The SED 6L6GC, however, was a real budget winner, sounding oh so close to some of the better old offerings in timbre; a real enjoyable tube.
     
  17. captwillard

    captwillard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville
    Are you talking Fender, Vox, or Marshall Variant?
     
  18. russk

    russk Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Actually talking about HiFi amps but for guitar I've always liked the Vox EL84 sound
     
  19. Burt

    Burt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kirkwood, MO
    The 6V6 is just a small low power tube. It is not "low quality" but there is no reason to select it for high fidelity audio. Works great for tube radios and for smaller guitar amps.
     
  20. Burt

    Burt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kirkwood, MO
    I'd go with the 211 before the 845, which takes too much drive.
     
  21. Burt

    Burt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kirkwood, MO
    To say nothing of the insane price.

    Like the 2A3, once a very common tube. And ironically a lot easier to make than any beam power tube-only rectifiers are easier.
     
  22. Aludra85

    Aludra85 New Member

    Audio Electronics Supply AE-25 Super Amp Signature. A slight clarification, though: it can't take EL84s as power tubes (though it does use a pair as current source tubes), and I'm not sure about the last two in the poll, but it can take everything listed from EL34 to KT150 as power tubes.
     
  23. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Can most power tubes be run "triode mode" and "ultra linear" if the amp has that capability? If so, seems like this could be part of the amplifier specific aspect of how a power tube sounds.
    Should rating the tube mention its mode of operation in the amp?
     
  24. Shiver

    Shiver Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Waxxy - out of interest did you try different KT88s in your Primaluna, or just stick with the stock or others? Thanks
     
  25. Waxxy

    Waxxy Cold Turkey

    Location:
    Alberta
    I tried the set that came with the Prima Luna amp and then I bought a set of Winged "C" KT88s. They were both fine sounding, but overall I prefer the tonal balance of the el34 family.
     
    Shiver likes this.
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