Fed up with Grado cartridges

My experience has been quite different.

I've used a Grado black on my Denon TT for a couple of years now. I've been very happy with it - both its sound and its durability. It sounds warm and musical to me, much more so than the Sure cart (M104E, I think) that it replaced. I've had it skip on just one out of 200+ different LPs that it has seen and I never noticed any significant inner groove distortion that I could attribute to the cart. I had some hum at first that was easily eliminated by moving the TT a few inches further away from some other electronics.

I have a Sumiko Pearl on my Rega P25 that sounds better to me - but it should since it is 2x the price and on a better TT. I have to admit that I haven't heard many of them, but I can't imagine that there are too many $60 carts that sound any better.

 

4 grado black replacement styli in 2 years? I'd be looking at the turntable and/or set up. I've used the Black and Gold for years without incident. The Black won't do everything right at $60 but it does a lot right for $60.

I've had the Black on a Thorens and a Dual for well over a year on each model. Curious, is your cueing being done by hand or are you using the lift/lower mechanism and if so Is it well damped or does it lower too quickly? Maybe a queing issue?

 

Yup, something is very wrong with that picture.

 

Nah! The Grados sounded thin and weak. You are just probably so used to the Grados, that's all.

 

Man, you are really on Grado's stick, huh? It's not just one type of turntable that have the hum problem with the Grados. I experienced it on two other tables I used that cart on. And, hum IS a major issue. It interferes with the musical reproduction by adding distortion. You do hear the hum. You've probably just learned to ignore it.

Trust me, that hum is real! It's the main reason I quit using it.

Again, to be clear, we are talking about the Grado black, specifically. It's a low-cost cart. And, it tracks horribly, like the cantilever was wobbly.

 

Thank you for your characteristic note of sanity, Bill.

From Stereophile, Vol. 21, No. 6, page 142, a review of the Grado Reference Platinum and Sonata carts:
"Grados may tend to hum in certain turntables, and at least one Rega/Grado dealer advertises that Grados are not recommended for use with Regas for that reason. I confronted said dealer, along with John Grado, and Rega importer Steve Lauerman, on this very issue. All concluded that, in certain setups, depending on related equipment and turntable location, a small hum may be noticeable at the end of a recording, but it should not be objectionable. In fact, Lauerman uses a Grado Sonata on his own Rega."

-Bob

 

Thin and weak is not how I would characterize the Grado Black. I put a lot of miles on that cart on a Dual with a ULM as well as on a Thorens TD147 Jubilee and if I were to generalize, I'd accuse it of being warm and lush and yes, perhaps not the best tracker but I know of many many fine cartridges costing several times the Black that have the same issue with mistracking.

 

I had a Signature 8 'back in the day'. Loved it on a LP12. Sweet-o-la!

 

This is the first I've heard of Grado cantilevers breaking like this. Surely if they are set up correctly then there shouldn't be a problem ? I hear a lot about them being "bad trackers" too but this is another thing I haven't experienced. When I used them (several from the Prestige range) I found them to be great cartridges, especially for the price.

 

I won't be so stupid to say all Grado's hum on Regas but I think it's misinformation to say outright they do not.

I recently purchased a Ref. Platinum and it hummed. And I think that the hum that most people talk about where it interacts with the EMF from the AC motor under the plinth actually might be tolerable as KT88 and other people mention.

However, I experienced hum even with the turn table motor turned off and the cord unplugged. Turns out there was some EMF/interference in the wall or adjacent room that the Grado would pick up and pick up badly. Process of elimination failed to eliminate it. It was a deal breaker for me unfortunately. I was able to minimize it by moving my table into the middle of the room, but that was for experimentation only, I did not have the luxury of moving my TT permanently.

I liked the presentation of the Grado Reference Platinum. It is completely non fatiguing and has a fat bottom end and lower mid range. This was quite a bit different than my Goldring 1006. The one thing missing from the Grado was slam or punchiness, but it did a lot of things well. Ultimately, I sold it and moved it onto a Dynavector 10x5.

 

It is easy to drawn the conclusion that Grados are poor trackers, but that's not accurate. Fact is, they are indeed fussy about the arm they are mated with. If you are getting a wobble (the infamous "Grado dance") or mistracking distortion, that is indication of an arm mismatch making it unhappy. When everything is optimized, Grados are a real treat.

 

I have a red and black that I've used on a Music Hall MM7. No complaints.

 

I've had several Grados over the years and currently have the Statement Reference 1. While it does require careful handling like any serious cartridge, given a sympathetic platform it tracks magnificently and sounds superb. If you're wearing out 4 needles in 2 years somethings seriously wrong either with the cartridge, your setup or you have LP's playing constantly. If the latter, lucky you

 

Cartridge hum is caused by various problems...through lack of proper shielding , it is being exposed to interaction with magnetic forces nearby.... a TT motor , or materials "not quite as non-magnetic as it should be" in the platter material, the TT uses.
Hum is what one can call "a constant factor". Hum needs constant power to create itself. Speakers are then constantly working non stop to some degree. Therefore it is in fact sapping amp power-to what degree 'who knows'?. It also means that part of a HiFi system's possible -capable signal to noise range is also sliced off . And as for all this talk about a cartridge -( having hum that is detectable)....no wonder as some here are talking it up and claiming - a 'sense of warmth'. So easy to say , when a 'hum' sonic gauze is applied over any of the sound, being reproduced. Plus the cartidge's tracking weight set being upset, by the possible "attraction of each other - of the two forces, causing the problem"
I can easily see the reason for your displeasure.

 

What about the actual quality of the diamond , AS used for the stylus in the Grado Black cartridge? First thing, I would be looking at.

 

I have never in 20 years heard a Grado described as thin. Grados have a full powerful bass, rich and lush mids, and nice treble with just a touch of grain compared to the cleanest moving coils. The cheap ones are rougher than the upper end ones but sound essentially the same in character.

 

I like the Grado ethos of doing everything in-house but have to say the GS1000i headphones I had were a real disappointment due to their ear-piercing brightness and recessed midrange, even after extensive burn-in and using Sugden class A amplification. A real pity as they had the excitement factor for rock and electronica that my neutrally-biased ER4P's and HD800's can sometimes lack.

They also have a reputation for spotty build quality - the mahogany on my pair had a large gouge in it which should have been spotted by QC - not an isolated case judging by reports on Head-Fi. Nevertheless, the fact they went and produced the HF1 and HF2 phones for members as a special limited edition was a fantastic gesture imo.

Haven't heard their cartridges. As with all Grado products, the prices are jacked up extensively in Europe.

 

That's too bad.

I became re-interested in Grado cartridges after buying a pair of the SR80i headphones, which exhibit none of the negative qualities you've described. I absolutely love the sound of these 'phones - like Grado carts, they have rich mids, plump, bouncy bass, and clear but slightly recessed treble.

 

Strange that. Prices here in Israel are normally excessively high,(normally add a Zero to the dollar price) however I can get the Grado Statement Reference Cartridge for 5750 shekels. One dollar costs 3.9 shekels. That puts the cost of the Cartridge at $1475 pretty much what it sells for in the States.

 

I've used Grado Black on an older fully manual Pioneer turntable, no hum. I'm uisng a Grado Silver on a Technics automatic turntable, SL-Q350, no hum. I'm having no tracking issues whatsoever, but I opted to have the cart installed and tested at my dealer a block away.

Perhaps some of the tracking issues people are seeing are caused by worn arm mounts, or bad adjustments.

Before someone rips the turntable selection, I listen to records most of the time, as my primary source of music, so I need an automatic. Getting up in the middle of dinner to lift a needle is too much of a hassle-I like to enjoy my LPs, not just look at them.

From reading these posts, it there seem to be a lot of happy Technics/Grado users. So, yes, if it doesn't work for you try something else, but on the right deck, this cartridge (Grado Silver) sounds amazing. Instead of costing me close to $200, it saved me $600 by curbing my need to purchase new speakers.

Owners of the Grado Black should try upgrading their stylus to the same stylus that comes on the gold. That's a good trick to get some better sound, at a good savings. Double-check fit, and ask a technician first.

 

I'm sorry to hear your cart isn't working. I've been very fortunate to have my Grado Gold on my Traveler for about two years and still going strong. No hum or anything like some of the others are experiencing. My next cart will probably be a Denon 103r just out of curiosity though. I hope you find one that works for you.

 

Why did you bother after the 2nd time & also you have to be objective to how you set up a turntable. To be fair I now steer clear of MC cartridges because of their delicate operations.

 

I'm not a fan of Grado either.

Hum, poor tracking and mediocre sound so I went back to Audio Technica with much better results.

 

Upgrading to an 8MZ stylus is an even more significant upgrade than getting a Gold stylus. You'll get better top end and low end extension over the Gold, and it's a better tracker. And here's what's the real shocker; Grado hasn't kept the pricing on the 8MZ stylus up-to-date, so at $100 it is cheaper than the relatively inferior Gold stylus!

If you can adjust the resistive loading of your preamp, the MCZ stylus ($150) is another step upwards, but you'll get best performance from the MCZ stylus with Prestige bodies with the loading around 18-24k due to the difference in the coils between the native MCZ body and the modern Prestige bodies.

Only half-truths in the above. They wouldn't have stayed in business for 60 years if they made lousy products.

Your profile doesn't indicate what gear you're using, but Grados are very telling about issues further upstream; they will not perform well on arms that are not good matches compliance-wise; they will sound dull and/or mistrack horribly. The infamous hum is due to the lack of shielding on some tables' motors. But a properly optimized Grado can really wow you.

I have a Grado Signature 8MR with an MCZ stylus (loaded at 24k) on my Thorens TD-124/SME 3009 S2 Improved, and I have no problems with hum and mistracking. It produces the most layered, deep, holographic soundstage I have yet to hear in my listening room, and the mids are incredible. It really puts a smile on my face.

I recently flirted with using a Shure V-15 Type III/JICO SAS on the TD-124, and went back to the Grado. The Shure/JICO ultimately lacked the low-end extension and imaging capability of the Grado, and I missed it.

 

I have used several Grado cartridges and always been happy whit them.
I have a Gold Prestige for many years and never had a problem with it ,the other catridge i had was a Reference
Sonata i have to replace it after 3 years ,it had failures.
Now i have just replaced a Benz Micro Ace +- 4 years old ,by a new one .
So i can't say a bad word over the quality of Grado cartridges.
Greetings, Ron