Fed up with Grado cartridges

Hey, let the haters hate.
I use to be in that league, until I was shown how to properly set up a Grado on whatever tonearm.
Now there is no looking back. I have in my stable of carts,
SoundSmith Carmen
Denon DL160
Denon 301 v2
Ortofon Super OM20
Shure M91 w/SAS
Shure M97xe w/SAS, and the Grado Gold1 w/8MZ is the cart in the grooves 98% of the time.

And anyone who believes Lp playback isn't rife with various types of distortion, noise, is just foolin' themselves.

 

Grado Gold 1 with 8MZ stylus is the best compromise I have found too. Good balance between detail and smoothness, ability to keep noise down and it has a very sweet sound.
The AT I have (near top of the line nude with beryllium cantilever) is detailed and dynamic but ohhh, the noise!
No issue with the Grado cantilever durability- I have a very low mass tone arm. High mass arms- e.g those big S-shaped arms- will stress cantilevers more because of physical inertia regardless of tracking force.

 

With all of this talk about Grado carts, I remembered that I had one in our storage unit for the last 10 years. It's a Blue P-mount that's connected to a Technics SL-Q350. The cart may have been used 5-10 hours max.

I took it out of the box and hooked it up just the way I found it this morning. This combination definitely sounds way better than I expected. I think I may mount it on an adaptor tonight and hook it up to my Avid and see what happens.

As you can see, I have it setup temporary and less than optimal.





By the way, no hum.

 

Chadbang, this thread is 2 years old but since it was very recently brought back up to the top, I gotta know, did you ditch the Grado? If so, what took its place? If not, what was the fix?

 

I was going to say. Vent once on the internet....

I now use a Stanton 681EEE. Haven't bent a thing since... Don't get me wrong folks, I like the Grado sound, but the styli on the Blacks were FRAGILE.

 

I clearly remember an individual plotted factory test sheet graph, being provided with each & every Stanton 681EEE that was issued in the mid 70's, when I was using the cartridge. My graph showed..........."flat from 20 to 20000 Hz within 1 or minus 1 db !"

 

What are you using for a stylus? Stanton hasn't made a decent one for years and the JICO replacement is disappointing (IMO).

 

Oh, I was lucky I scored a NOS Stanton with original stylus off eBay. Pre-move to Florida Stanton. I'm not spinning vinyl all the time so it's still has fairly low hours. I rue the day when that stylus wears out. Astatic made a decent 681 EEE replacement stylus and I managed to get two of those before they sold out for now and forever more. I got it from A company that took over the last of Astatics stock in Canada. if I had known they were going to run out I would've bought a dozen more. I hesitated and I lost It was actually a replacement stylus designed for the Pickering equivalent of the 681. But as you say that original Stanton stylus is the best. When I use all these styluses up it's on to Ortofon. Now it's not possible to buy NOS Stanton stuff off eBay without paying a ridiculous sum. And for that kind of money you might as well get a modern cartridge that you can easily get replacement styli for.

 

Ah yes, I remember you and I discussing those Canadian Astatics via PM!

 

I'm on my first Grado, having been a die hard Shure fanboy since getting back to vintage, and I'm grateful to AR XA turntable expert over at Audiokarma Marc Morin for turning me, and a bunch of other folks to the greatness of using the 8MZ stylus with various older Grado carts. I've got Z, F & M series carts from the prehistoric days and the 8MZ makes them all come alive and sing loud and clear. These carts were really made for the AR XA. As much as I enjoy my Shure carts on this table and every other table I own, the Grado/AR combo is really something special.

 

Oh was that you? I forgot! Hahaha

 

Go buy a Shure M97 and live happy for cheap.

 

Especially after Marc works his magic on the AR!

My 8MR came from Marc's Grado collection, BTW.

The M97xE has a lot of characteristics in common with Grados, as do many older Shures.


I did some messing around with my set-up the other night. I decided to install the 3-point decoupler that originally came with the Signature carts back in the '80s. The included instructions from Joe Grado say, "Use the decoupler at all times regardless of what anybody says!" Now that's a real Brooklyn attitude! LOL.

It is designed so that the "nipples" are against the cartridge and the flat side is against the headshell.



Marc Morin warned me that the bass might become to forward with the decoupler installed, and the bass did indeed become more prominent, but not in an unpleasant way. The SME swiss cheese headshell on my 3009 has a reputation for ringing, and I believe that the decoupler has helped the Grado track more accurately and cleanly.

It was also necessary for me to adjust the VTF on the SME, which is done via a small hex screw that secures a clamp around the arm pillar. Once I got it adjusted I noticed that the arm pillar was wobbling!! WTF!

I did some asking around on AudioKarma, and learned that there are two small screws beneath the bedplate that secure the retaining plate against the clamp. I removed the arm from the TD-124, disassembled the screening can (taking great care to not break any wires), and tightened those two little screws. After adding a little blue Loctite, I put everything back together (which is a bit of a PITA on SME arms) and reinstalled it on the Thorens.

HOLY CRAP, major sonic improvement!! The imaging depth and realism is astoundingly good, especially considering that my listening room is only a mere 9' x 12'. Bass extension, tightness, and texture is exceptional. Reverb trails are long and deep (the Fisher tubes certainly help). Dynamics are greatly improved as well.

Yeah, this Grado isn't going anywhere...

 

I didnt dig the Shures. Not warm enough for me. I liked the Grado Black much better, except for aforementioned longevity problems. Maybe a move up to a better Grado would solve that. I'd have to research cantilever materials.

 

Something is not right with this picture. I have been using Grados off and on since the '80s, and have never had one fail on me, except through carelessness.

You don't find the M97xE warm enough? If it were any warmer, your headshell would melt.

 

Chad. On the Thorens, go with the Ortofon Red. $99 and You'll be done.
the beave

 

Of course, in that hundred buck range, there's also the Nagaoka MP-110....

 

I found the Grados to have a warmer overall signature than the M97xe. The Stantons are even smoother than that!

 

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The lack of warmth is an improper loading issue (capacitance). Every cartridge wants to see a particular load.

Art Dudley had a review of the Grado Gold you might want to read off Stereophile.com equip. review section. What has slightly bugged me about their carts is that they make a production run, and then test them all and the ones that measure better they charge more for them when nothing extra was done to them, that just by the luck of the draw they just measured better. Maybe there are just times in life were we are better off not knowing things. Have we lost the art of fairness to one another or we just do things because we can?

I have a friend who had been with the same homeowner's insurance company for 14 years with no claims. They wrote him a letter and said that his house was not in a state in which they could insure it any more (untrue as I have been in the home that he keeps it in excellent repair), and cancelled him on the spot. They replied that he has some paint coming off one side of the house.

What I believe is that they have some statistical analysis that shows when chronologically when claims might start and he arrived at that period. Somewhere someone forgot that insurance is the financial sharing of misfortune not something when convenient to be used to get out of some possible future obligation. They had no problem cashing his checks for over $1400 per year in the past. They certainly enjoyed his nearly $200,000 in premiums over the years.

 

That's a bit harsh, don't you think? I mean, Grado has been completely transparent about this. Whether or not you want to pay for the one that tested better or not is completely up to you, the consumer, to decide. There is no deception or "lack of fairness" here.

"The Gold1 model is selected from the Silver1 production run and meets higher test specifications. Approximately 5% of the production run meet these standards and become Gold1 models."

 

Jim- corporate cruelty at its finest. He should file a claim with the BBB, states attorney and local COC.

As for the Grado, you pay slightly extra for the labor of the test to get the cream of the crop. Most manufacturers test only a small sample of their product off the line.

 

Same with the processor in your computer.

Nevertheless, I have a Grado Blue and on occasion will mount it. Usually take it off within 24 hrs. Yeesh what a hollow bloated sound.

 

Grados only sound bloated and muddy when there's a compliance mismatch. They are very telling of things further upstream that they don't like.

 

That's why I'm a hardcore Shure fan. Not the most sophisticated, but these kind of problems are unheard of with the brand. And even the cheapest models perform trouble-free and sound good.

 

Yes, even budget Shures perform well and above their price. I even prefer the M25c and M35x to the Grados and the Ortofon 2M Red. Bad when something half the money is superior value and more ruggedness.