Fifty year old phono cartridges

The M55-E was very very close to the V15. Shure promoted as a V15 built to slightly less standards. Test reports showed it to be very close indeed. Your cartridge body can use some very nice styli like JICO I am pretty sure. Shure ? LOL. I had a M44-5 when I was a teenager. My brother had a Sansui SR 4040 turntable which is a massive belt drive turntable. It came with a moving coil cartridge with a built in transformer. There was an extra headshell so I bought and installed the Shure to play my records. My brother does not even use the turntable. I wish I had it. When you add the extra counterweight(necessary with that moving coil/transformer combo) it becomes a high mass tonearm and that would be great for my old GE's.

 

I use my M 55-E/N 44-7 cartridge on a medium high mass tonearm, and it's appropriate for it, it's an Audio-Technica ATP 16-T 12" transcription tonearm, mounted in a custom plinth, using a Technics SP-25 motor unit. Audio-Technica isolation feet are used with this combo. This is my main turntable, used several hours or more per day, every day unless I am at the other house. It performs very well, is durable, reliable, and free of fuss and frippery, and sounds very excellent. (I have other cartridges in headshells when I want higher end)

 

Interesting....I'm thinking. Actually tip mass was quite low because you only have the diamond and the cantilever. There are no magnets or coils on the other end. Only the diamond and cantilever move. Many forget that there were two or in the case of the VR 1000, 3 versions of these carts like Shure did with the M44 body. The GE versions that used the 0.5 mil diamonds were capable of tracking at 2(GE VR 1000-5) or 3(GE Golden Classic and VR-225) grams. My VR 1000 tracks great at 4 grams (with the 0.7 mil) on most records. I can't find a 0.5 mil for the VR 1000. I had one but it was useless. Only very heavy bass trips it up and I just don't play those records with it. I mean really have bass like on some of George Michael's songs. Madonna LP's play fine and they have some decent bass. I encourage stereoguy and anyone else who has one of these classics to try it. It is a real ear opener. I was at first really hesitant to track at 4 grams but I don't play the same records over and over and I put a new Electro-Voice stylus in. So....all is well. BTW...compliance figures are available in the old Allied catalogs online. I don't know who posted those but they are a terrific resource for vintage stuff.

 

PhxJohn, you are correct here. For most people then, using good equipment but not best, the two were very close in real life performance (and practical people not upsold, like my dealer did, he was honest and valued long relationships with his customers, he preferred selling you the M 55-E). Likewise when the V 15 Type II was released (the similar high end M 75 ED was very close in performance, he used one on his own Dual 1019 he used daily at home), he could have had any cartridge he wanted, free from the manufacturer. He was practical, also believed in the right tool for the tonearm and application it was used in. He wanted to sell you the best for the least money, he wanted your repeat business. I bought from him a NOS AR 91XA, he told me that the M75ED Type II was better suited to the AR tonearm, tracked better, and less distortion (he installed me one, and gave me said turntable for $15 less, and it was A/B compared to a M91ED, he was also right). I still use a M75 EJ x2 in frequent record playing. I like the cartridge.

 

My turntable for the 'big' stereo is an upgraded to the hilt Rega with the RB202 tonearm with the Groovetracer counterweight which gives it some mass. That is the turntable with the Ortofon Quintet Blue. The turntable for the 'little' stereo is an AR 77-XB. I bought a heavier counterweight that came with the older AR's as with the stock counterweight, the counterweight was hanging off the end to balance the heavy GE VR 1000. I was looking at some Rek-O-Kuts on Ebay but they looked pretty rough. Maybe someday I will buy an old Empire. It just is hard to justify 3 turntables. To myself.....I don't answer to anyone else. LOL. My stereo dealer told me that he has a box of Shures that I can look through. When I was very young, I was enamored of the Shure M7D I believe it was. It was one up from the M3D. I wouldn't mind having a M55-E. I could get a nice new JICO stylus for it. That is one thing nice about the AR 77-XB with detachable headshells. Plus, the headshells are in production and better than ever. You can tell I like variety. I don't think there is one best. I would rather enjoy the differences.

 

Shure had so many cartridges. It is a shame that now they are down to just a few models. And aren't they made in Mexico now ? Not that it is a bad thing. I am a (THE)director at an age restricted 14 apartment cooperative complex. I buy Federal Pioneer circuit breakers to replace the fire starter Federal Pacifics. I can only get the Federal Pioneers from Canada but they are made in Mexico and they work. The choice here in the States is Connecticut Electric made in China and they do not work(do not trip when overloaded). So, Mexico is cool if that is where they are made now. Just a shame to lose another company. Ortofon makes more cartridges than you can shake a stick at. I read that they sell 500,00 a year !

I still have one more GE cartridge...the VR-22X and a bunch of NOS 0.5 and 0.7 mil styli for the Golden Classic and VR-22X on the way. Will be fun to try out both cartridges and see how they compare to the VR 1000. Old catalogs and Ebay make this possible and fun.

 

Old cartridges had a charm all of their own. I use a Shure V15 mk3
Sometimes a Goldring G800E .
Very musical!
I believe modern cartridges are deemed more accurate. But hell , without being present at the recording session who can say.

 

I am glad that more people don't like old cartridges. It would just make prices go even higher.

 

Phx....
Thank you very much for your reply.
I have to admit that I'd be a little skittish using 4 grams on any of my albums, even knowing that those same disks probably saw 4 grams or more when they were bought. Im just a fraidycat.

 

Understood. And that is why I am in the process of obtaining the 0.5 mil styli for my GE VR Stereo cartridge collection. With the 0.5 mil styli, the GE VR 1000 will track at 2 grams. The Golden Classic and VR-22 will track at 3 grams. I have a boatload of NOS styli for the VR 1000 which are 0.7 mil and a few 0.7 mil for the Golden Classic and VR-22. I may sell some at some point. But I will probably keep the Electro-Voice as they seem to be the best.

 

Thats cool. At 3 grams I would probably put a 0.5 mil styli on my VR-22, install it on my Garrard Type A, and chose a bunch of albums that I have doubles and triples of, (like The Please Please Me Lp) just to see how it sounds.

May I ask you where I can get a 0.5 mil for the VR-22?

 

Calibrated test tones?

 

Email Gary at Voice of Music even though website shows none available. He is sending me a couple. He may or may not have more.
Check Ebay frequently. I buy them fast.
I have some on the way this week I hope. Let me see what I get and we can discuss.

 

Your Shure is not even that old. I probably mentioned it but the original Shure V15 was around in 1965. After 1967, the GE VR 1000's became history. It is hard to paint all old cartridges with the same brush. They differed so much as new ones do now. I still have not heard a cartridge that sounds as real as my GE VR 1000. At least in those days we had Stereo Review, High Fidelity and other magazines that produced test reviews complete with frequency response and channel separation graphs. I absolutely agree...unless you are at the recording session..... And look at how many of today's brands have a 'house' sound....AT is bright, Grado is warm and syrupy, Ortofon is neutral(some are bright), Shure is warm, etc etc. If old cartridges were not good...they would not still be selling for hundreds of dollars or more. And some 'new' cartridges have been in production for decades. London Decca and whatever the OEM is for the Sumiko Pearl and the Shelter 201 are three examples.

 

There was a GE VR-1000 on the most popular auction site yesterday. It was priced at $295. It sold in about one hour.

 

I mounted the GE VR-225 in a headshell today. It sounds very bright. The highs are clean but from the midrange on down it sounds rough. I do not like it. It can't touch my VR 1000.

 

I may have changed my mind about the current M44-7. Seeing pictures of it make me feel nostalgic. I may have mentioned that I bought a M44-5 when I was a teenager. There should be plenty of styli available for the M44-7. I think we went over that on here not too long ago but I was not in the mind set at the time. I put a NOS Electro-Voice stylus in my GE VR-225 today and tried it. While it is bright and the treble is clean, the rest of the audio spectrum is rough sounding like a generic ceramic of the 60's. Listening to one side of the double Supremes Greatest Hits was enough. With the GE VR 1000, I find myself playing album after album. They sound that different. My apologies for not giving your idea about the Shure M44-7 due consideration.

 

I spent a fair amount of time yesterday trying to improve the mounting of my GE VR-225 into an AR replicated headshell. Gary(Voice of Music) told me to try longer screws and nylon washers to compensate for the fact that the Golden Classics and VR 22's have 7/16" mounting centers. If anyone has more ideas about this, please do not hesitate to comment. I got the azimuth as close to perfect as I could and tried the GE VR-225 again this morning. At very slightly over 3 grams with an EV 2738D (0.5 mil) stylus, it tracked and sounded pretty good. Better than yesterday. I am interested in suggestions for maximum tracking for a 0.5 mil stylus without excessive record wear. I had read 3 grams for a 0.5 and 5 grams for a 0.7 mil. Max tracking force for GE GC and VR-225 is 4 grams with 0.5 mil stylus. I hope I can go that high safely.

I installed my $142.50 EV 2750D stylus in my GE VR 1000. I had a Pfanstiehl 508-D5 awhile ago. It was useless. Just skated across the record. Luckily I had only paid $25 for it. The seller refunded half my money although I did not ask him to. The EV 2750D was no better. It will play the Supremes Greatest Hits and 101 Strings Soul of Spain with distortion, but anything else....it just skates across the record. Total waste of money. There was only one other bidder when I bid on the stylus. I hope that he will read this and realize that he dodged a bullet. LOL. I will have the stylus looked at under a microscope. If the tip is missing, maybe I will get it retipped if that is not too expensive.

Cheers,
John

 

Wow......sorry for your troubles John. Cant you get a full refund from the seller?

 

I have a VR 1000, from a parts turntable, which I always wanted to try out, but it has a broken stylus.
The only replacements I can find are the cheap $20 ones, at 0.7 mil.
Are they any good - or a waste of time until a vintage NOS can be found?

 

Interesting that you ask. I spent $142.50 on an Ebay auction for an Electro-Voice 2750D which is a NOS 0.5 mil. It is useless. It skates across the record.
I had a 0.5 mil Pfanstiehl 508-D5 that did the same thing. I have GIVEN UP on the 0.5 mils. On the Pfanstiehl only the tip of the tip showed. The Electro-Voice appeared more normal but still does not work. I used a strong magnifying glass on the Electro-Voice. It has a tip so maybe the so called suspension has turned to cement. You are only going to find NOS. No one makes these anymore. I am using an Electro-Voice 2743D which works great. I have about 60 NOS 0.7 mil diamond styli for the GE VR 1000.

 

Is there something you do not like about the .7 mil diamond for the VR 1000?

 

Yes. The tracking force. The 0.5 mils as designed by GE(and hopefully the aftermarket suppliers EV, Pfanstiehl, and maybe others) have a more compliant cantilever that is supposed to allow them to track at 1-3 grams. I doubt one could ever track at one gram but Stereo Review tested both versions in 1960 or 1961. The -5 tracked the test record at 2 grams. The -7 (0.7 mil) tracked the test record at 4 grams. I would rather track at 2 grams. Plus, I am hoping that the 0.5 mil version will track better at 2 or 3 grams than the 0.7 mil does at 4 grams. I do not want to exceed 4 grams. My EV 2743D cannot track records with really heavy bass at 4 grams.

 

I am kind of surprised that no one makes styli for these GE carts any more. You would think that, with all the interest in vintage audio the last 10 years, that some stylus maker would just bang these out, even if they arent top quality. You'll really only get "that jukebox sound" from the GE's.
Thats where my cart came from....my 1961 AMI.

 

I noticed that the Japanese love the Golden Classics and the VR-22's. I have those too. And I do have 0.5 mils for those that actually work at 3 grams !! There must be something about the design of the 0.5 mil for the VR 1000 that is very subject to aging. I am 63. I have been involved with audio since I was a child and not until these two 0.5 mil styli have I ever seen a stylus skate across a record. Never. The Russians love the VR-1000. Not to contradict your statement...it is just what I noticed on Ebay. Oh...and with messaging a guy in Russia concerning a VR 1000. What gets my goat is that a better stylus was not developed for the VR 1000. I can picture one that would be so easy to make and would work perfectly. It could be offered with different compliance values, output values, tracking forces, and stylus shapes. Just like Shure did with the M44 series.