Finally bought some balanced cables for my Pono

My birthday was yesterday, got way too much money as a gift, didn't deserve that much. Anyway I finally bought a balanced cable for my Sennheiser HD 700's along with a female adapter to plug in the Pono from LQi Cables on ebay. They were a bit pricey, but sound like they are handmade from premium material.

Waited a long time to get these, can't wait. Supposed to arrive by April 25th or even sooner. Is balanced mode on the Pono quite an improvement in sound? And from what I understand the Pono powers the headphones in balanced mode, I don't need to use my headphone amp anymore.

Sorry for the questions, just a bit excited I guess.

 

I’ll be interested to hear about your findings. I’ve been thinking about doing the balanced cable thing myself, but haven’t gotten around to it.

 

Anybody with a Pono and Sennys needs to get the balanced cables immediately. In this hobby, things that are subtle at best get branded night and day. The difference with the balanced cables isn't at all subtle. I'd go as far as to say the Pono is pointless if you don't use balanced cables.

 

I'll post my thoughts for sure. The site says they need about 50 hours for burn in, can't wait to get them burned in and listen to my 24/192 version of Pet Sounds.

Thanks for confirming it for me, really glad I finally bought these. I know on the Pono forum people raved about balanced mode, I guess I was so busy buying more music I never took the time to upgrade. Can't wait to listen.

 

Cables arrived today, very well made, flexible, sturdy. After hooking them up I am blown away at the sound the cables, headphones and Pono provide in balanced mode. It is like I am enveloped in sound, everything is crystal clear but has punch. Tried out some Pet Sounds 24/192 tracks, 24/96 Go Your Own Way, 24/96 Running On Empty, all sound amazing. And I hear the difference, this isn't a case of "well I spent a lot of money so I hear it", the sound really shines through. I feel like I've just unlocked my music, definitely brings new life to it.

And they are supposed to burn in for 50 hours, so the sound will only get better. Sorry for the rambling, really thrilled with these cables/Pono. Didn't think there would be such a big difference. Off to do more listening.

 

Yup.

No question that switching to balanced mode improves the objective qualities of the PonoPlayer. Better noise floor (higher resolution), lower overall distortion characteristics, less stereo crosstalk. These are the typical findings when we use balanced cabling with most hi-fi devices.

It's Balanced PonoPlayer Time...

I agree, it sounds great.

 

@ccbarr From what I understand, the balanced mode in Pono is to be able to drive headphones that need more power, based upon the ohms the headphones' impedance (The Senns HD700 is 150 ohm). I can't find the specs on the Pono anymore, at least as it addresses what level of impedence it can support when not in balanced mode, but I think trying to drive those 700s, you might need a headphone amp. Balanced mode is to increase the amount of power to drive your headphones, but not necessarily make things sound better, i.e., sound quality. That being said, I never listen to my Pono in non-balanced mode when listening with headphones if I can help it.

 

Per the first post he had been using a headphone amp. So he is saying running balanced directly from the Pono sounds that much better than unbalanced through the headphone amp (a Beyerdynamic is listed in his profile). Interesting finding

 

Ah yeah I glossed over that part.

 

It caught my eye because that’s how I’m using my Pono right now. @ccbarr may have just convinced me to take the balanced plunge. . .

 

I liked the HD600's better with the balanced Pono then with a Schiit Lyr 2 or Vali, FWIW. Definitely not a matter of just hearing them properly powered for the first time.

 

Thanks to all for the help, yeah I was using a Beyerdynamic A20 to power the 700s, but it seems like the Pono is powering the headphones pretty well in balanced mode. I'll wait for the burn in, it sounds fantastic now and the soundstage is so impressive, really am feeling surrounded in sound. Down the road I may check out balanced amps, that is something I know little about, but that could be said for the whole balanced mode setup.

@curbach, I hate to give a flat out recommendation because I know it is a fair amount of money to spend and I'd hate to have you not like the sound. That said I heard a big improvement when I first listened to "Go Your Own Way in 24/96 in balanced. Everything was crystal clear, the sound just fills the headphones perfectly, plenty of punch. And as I said it wasn't a case of wanting to hear it sound good because I spent the money, it jumped out right away. So I feel it is really worth it, but I'm not an expert.

 

I've described the sound of the PonoPlayer as enveloping. Now you know why. Enjoy. That's a very special style of headphone sound.

 

Thanks for all the info you've shared on the Pono. Before buying the cables I read through quite a few threads and your posts really helped seal the deal, so thank you again, The sound is so amazing, and I feel like the Pono is driving the 700s well enough, but I'll give it some time. Do you think an amp would be something to look into in the future? The sound is only going to get better with the burn in, and I'm happy right now with the sound. @Joe Laviguer post has made me kinda curious.

 

The reasons the PonoPlayer sounds better in balanced mode is because the amp circuit and design is balanced. It was designed as a balanced amp. The circuit is balanced and designed to sound best as balanced. Like other Ayre gear. Listening to it single-ended means you're only listening to a portion of the amp circuit and not getting the full intended sound of the design. The balanced mode with the PonoPlayer is about hearing the full design of the circuit. Hearing the full design of the circuit is way more important than the other superficial benefits of balanced like differential noise rejection, lower noise floor, lower crosstalk, and other generally recognized benefits of balanced audio.

There is also the sonic benefit of the zero feedback design. Zero feedback and low feedback designs generally have much better soundstage depth and allow for an enveloping style of sound. Designs with more feedback tend to have much flatter soundstage and can't do the enveloping style of headphone sound that surrounds your head. I very much tend to like zero feedback and low feedback amps for headphone listening. To me, high feedback designs kill the music and kill the sound quality. The high feedback designs may measure extremely well, but they kill the music, kill the soundstage depth, kill that enveloping style of sound.

There are many headphone amps and amp/DAC combos and portable players that do balanced headphone output, but don't do it in a way that gives you the sort of sonic benefits that you get with the PonoPlayer when comparing the single-ended to the balanced headphone output. Those other headphone amps will have balanced headphone outputs but when you switch between the single-ended and balanced outputs there is only a slight change in sound quality. You don't get the degree and style of sound quality change that you get with the PonoPlayer. The PonoPlayer becomes truely enveloping in balanced mode. Those other balanced headphone amps and amp/DACs do not, even though they cost more, sometimes much more.

Plugging the PonoPlayer into a single-ended amp like the Beyerdynamic A20 that is almost certainly a high feedback design is not going to get you what you hear with the PonoPlayer internal amp. The Beyer amp may give you more punch and sharper transients but it's not going to do the full enveloping sound you hear in balanced mode on the PonoPlayer. If you have a headphone amp with balanced inputs and have the balanced line-out cables for the PonoPlayer you may get more of that enveloping sound, but it will depend on the sound quality of the amp and likely depend on how much feedback the amp design uses. A headphone amp with balanced inputs and zero or low feedback may be able to do it, but it isn't going to be cheap.

 

Thanks a ton for the info Ham, very helpful info. You and a member on Pono's forum have filled me in great. The Pono seems to drive the HD 700s without a problem, and I want the sound the Pono creates, not a headphone amp. So far I am blown away with the sound, and it will only get better.

Really appreciate you taking the time out to explain all this to a noob like me.

 

The PonoPlayer in balanced mode is gong to have a more laid back sound that some people won't prefer. Some people will want a more forward and aggressive sound with sharper transients that cause your head to snap back with every snare drum hit and cringe with every cymbal hit. Some people like that sort of headphone sound. I don't. I prefer a more laid back sound where I can listen deeply into the music, listen deeply to layering, listen for hours without fatigue. There's lots of headphone and audio gear that will sound impactful and impressive in a 5 minute demo, but will make you cringe if you listen for an hour. The PonoPlayer is an example of gear that may not initially impress in the first few minutes but will impress you if you listen for longer listening sessions. The PonoPlayer is something I can listen to for hours while listening deeply into the music and recording.

I can't think of anything else for $400 or less that does that for me. The least expensive comparative listening combo I can think of is the Cavalli Liquid Carbon (with balanced headphones) and a Schiit Modi 2 Multibit DAC. The Liquid Carbon amp is currently $300 on Massdrop when available and the Modi 2 Multibit is $250. But that combo is only good for up to 24/96. I don't like the Modi 2 Multibit for 24/176.4 and 192 high res. For 176.4 and 192 you need the Gungnir Multibit at $1250. The Gungnir Multibit has the advantage of also having balanced outputs that you can use with the balanced inputs on the Liquid Carbon. The balanced inputs do sound a little bit better. So to me the $400 PonoPlayer (with balanced headphones) sounds somewhat similar to a Cavalli Liquid Carbon X ($300) and Schiit Modi Multibit ($250) or Schiit Gungnir Multibit ($1250). The PonoPlayer has the advantage of being portable and self contained. The Cavalli and Schiit combos still need a laptop or streamer along with mains power to make them play music. My transportable listening system is a Cavalli Liquid Carbon and Modi Multibit along with a laptop. My portable is a PonoPlayer. My home listening is a Cavalli Liquid Fire or Liquid Glass and a Schiit Gungnir Multibit and a laptop and NAS. The PonoPlayer manages to give me a portable mini version of my home listening setup that costs 10x less. The PonoPlayer in balanced mode is a giant killer as long as you like its laid back style of sound. For those of us who like and prefer that style of sound the PonoPlayer (and Cavalli options) are awesome.

 

You described my listening preference to a T. I love the bigger soundstage, and to steal one of your descriptions, the enveloping sound the Pono has. And headphones are my preferred listening choice, strange I know but it has always been that way. I'm loving the sound of the Pono in balanced mode, as you said no listening fatigue, just great sound. The Pono is an incredible little player. I wish it would have taken off more, but I'm glad Neil and the team made it, as it does change the way I listen to music, in a good way.

 

I run balanced off the Pono both for headphones (Sony XBA-Z5) and into my main system. If you have a balanced input on your preamp/receiver, it’s worth getting a balanced-out cable from Surf Cables. The improved performance compared to most disc players is surprising.

John K.

 

Thanks for the tip. I may look into a balanced amp in the future, I don't believe my Beyerdynamic A20 is capable, but for now I'm really impressed in the Pono's performance in balanced mode. Big jump in sound IMO. Really appreciate the info though, something to think about for the future.

 

Has anyone used a 3.5mm splitter (if you will) to go balanced with a standard pair of headphones? Do you think it would work with my Sennheisers? Linked below

AW Audio PONO Player Balance to 3.5mm normal output cable adaptor | eBay

 

No! You cannot do that. That adapter will damage the amp and ruin your PonoPlayer.

It's disgusting that such an adapter is even available on eBay. But that's eBay for you. Buyer beware.

If you want to do balanced headphones you have to do it the right way with proper balanced cables.

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but you can run balanced into a main system amp? Is that what you are saying? I only use my Pono as an input into a main system amp, so this intrigues me immensely.

 

Thank you for the heads-up. I saw a pair for my Sennheisers from surf cables so I'll just get those.

 

I run it into my preamp, because that allows switching between sources, and I run the Pono at full volume, controlling level by the preamp. But, since the Pono does have a volume control, you might be able to go direct into an amplifier. I’m not sure however if the Pono will have enough voltage to drive the amp to full output.

John K