First impressions of the Nagaoka MP-110 phono cartridge

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by dividebytube, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    The only true way to know your capacitance is to measure it using a meter. Many turntables have well over 150pf of capacitance in the captive tonearm cables alone, with some vintage decks having almost 300pf or more. That's too much for many AT carts, before you even get to the preamp capacitance. Some folks also like to tune down the resistive loading to 32-39K to flatten excess treble response. If you want to tune it as flat as possible you'll need to make some loading plugs and use it in conjunction with a test LP and some software. Many of the AT YouTube videos are not showing these carts in a good light at all because of improper loading. It's like playing a CD rip from a CD with preemph, then not decoding it properly.
     
  2. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    The rectangular part is the base of the nude diamond before it reaches the tip. Again, Denon doesn't publish tip dimension specs for the DL-110.
     
  3. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    I don't understand you then because if you don't accept those dimensions I've included, then who does provide them? I had more cartridges than I care to remember and when you get the dimensions, that is pretty much what I get. May be a bit bigger or smaller but always in those term/lines.

    The tip dimensions if measured as in the graphs I was discussing a couple of posts above would be way smaller , many 0's on the left of the dimensions in mm and I don't recall ever seeing that.

    Please provide any example on another manufacturer website so I can see what the dimensions you talk about look like and the scale versus the base size which is always what I see?
     
  4. Thom01

    Thom01 Active Member

    Location:
    France
    I think it's pretty clear what "muffled" means in the context of comparing two cartridges.
    Some people feel the AT is too trebly, and I really enjoyed the Nag for over three years, but my ears, my setup and my musical expectations being what they are, the AT is a significant step forward AFAIC.
     
  5. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I think you are confused. Most other cart manufacturers will publish tip dimensions (e.g. Ortofon, Audio Technica, etc.) Denon is an odd duck among manufacturers. Some manufacturers will post a patented shape (e.g. Gyger, MicroRidge, etc.) but these tip dimensions can be researched. "Special Elliptical" isn't a particular patented design AFAIK, and Denon only gives the stylus shank dimensions rather than the tip dimensions. The actual tip dimensions on the DL-110 are anyone's guess, though there are quite a lot of speculations online about that. Not sure what else to say here. Again, I think you are confused about tip vs. shank on a stylus.
     
  6. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Muffled is very negative attribute to assign anything in music and there is a big difference between it and just not having as much HF extension and refinement.
    My whole point is that its not clear and you even aknowledged this by saying, your system, your ears.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  7. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney

    They call it special elliptical but I think it is just an embellishing word and it is just a plain elliptical stylus that comes in a cheaper (although good) cartridge. I see what you are talking about, Ortofon and Audio Technica are providing the actual tip dimensions of their styluses and not just the top part which was more an old fashion spec.
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  8. marcfeld69

    marcfeld69 Forum Resident

    Thanks. That’s great. Would you say the Denon has similar characteristics in its favour in comparison to the AT95e? I mainly play 70s up to current rock and pop records. Seems like the Denon is a no-brainer for recent records.
     
  9. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    At least on that youtube video I could understand somebody describing it as muffled, it doesn't mean it is terribly bad but certainly the Denon has a more open sound with more separation between instruments and that is just listening through headphones in this crappy laptop.
     
    Leonthepro likes this.
  10. marcfeld69

    marcfeld69 Forum Resident

    The AT range?
    [great post]
     
  11. marcfeld69

    marcfeld69 Forum Resident

    Take my ‘muffled’ comment with a pinch of salt (for now). I wrote that I was listening to the Youtube shootout on an iPhone on very basic earphones. I just thought that if I could hear a difference in a shootout on such basic equipment, there must be something to it, but I really should try to listen on my Mac with the DAC.
     
  12. Dr. J.

    Dr. J. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Yes. That's why I went to the ATs in the first place. My first turntable had some horrible conical cart and the IGD drove me nuts. Most AT carts, once you dial them in, are just listen and forget about it kind of carts.
     
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  13. marcfeld69

    marcfeld69 Forum Resident

    Right. Is it fair to say, then, that the DL-110 and the ATs (AT95e?) are better at reducing IGD?
     
  14. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    I dont doubt it, were dealing with about double the money after all. But which video was that, Id like to try it.
     
  15. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    The idea that things cant be heard over worse equipment, sources or even ears is highly exhaggurated in my eyes. If you know how to listen for things it tends to be somewhat audible even over phone speakers.
    Id like to try the shootout myself though, see how much better the DL 110 is.
     
    marcfeld69 likes this.
  16. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    There is an ocean of difference between the lower end ATs like the 95E and the higher end ones with the Shibata, Line Contact, and Microline styli. Those higher end styli are where you really need to go if IGD is a big concern. I would look for those in any cartridge brand and then figure out what is going to match your tonearm compliance wise. Everything else is just dickering around and wasting time. This is what I've learned over the last few years. Save your bog standard elliptical and conical carts for scratched up records.
     
    marcfeld69 and nosliw like this.
  17. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney


    Make sure to place the youtube setting on 1080 resolution to avoid any further compression by youtube.



     
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  18. floweringtoilet

    floweringtoilet Forum Resident

    I have a series of videos up comparing the DL-110 to the MP-110. I like both carts. Some prefer the Denon others the Nagaoka. YYMV, and things could sound different in your system. I think these videos give a sense of what the average user can expect from each cart.

    Round One: YouTube took down (was a Fleetwood Mac song)
    Round Two: The Cure "Caterpillar" from 'The Top' U.S. Sire pressing (see previous post for link)
    Round Three: Red Norvo "Red Sails" from 'Music To Listen To Red Norvo By' OJC pressing Cartridge Shootout: Battle of the 110's Denon DL-110 vs Nagaoka MP-110 - ROUND TREE
    Round Four: Antal Dorati, Respighi: Suite Number 2 for Orchestra, Mercrury Living Presence LP Cartridge Shootout: Battle of the 110's Denon DL-110 vs Nagaoka MP-110 - ROUND FOUR
    Round Five: The Smiths "Cemetery Gates" from 'The Queen Is Dead' U.S. Sire Pressing Cartridge Shootout: Battle of the 110's Denon DL-110 vs Nagaoka MP-110 - ROUND FIVE
    Round Six: TRex "Life Is Strange", from 'Tanx' U.S. Reprise Pressing Cartridge Shootout: Battle of the 110's Denon DL-110 vs Nagaoka MP-110 - ROUND SIX
     
    Lucca90 likes this.
  19. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney

    Hi, since you are here, have you got standing on a beach (US Elektra?)? Do the songs like the caterpillar sound better in the original album rather than the compilation or about the same?
    Thank you!
     
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  20. floweringtoilet

    floweringtoilet Forum Resident

    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  21. floweringtoilet

    floweringtoilet Forum Resident

    I used to have a U.S. Elektra 'Standing On A Beach' but sold it. I did not think it sounded good at all. Unfortunately, I don't still have it on hand to compare, so I only have my memory to go on. From memory I remember the pressing being very noisy. It wasn't just occasional clicks and pops, there was constant low-level background noise. I might have just had a bum pressing.
     
  22. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    No prob, I have the reissue "standing on" and I am considering getting an original may be a UK then. I find original albums tend to sound better than compilations but I am not ready to go full hog buying the whole The Cure discography yet. Thanks!
     
  23. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Not too long ago I lucked into a NM UK 1st of Pornography. That LP sounds incredible. I also have an old Elektra pressing of Mixed Up on 2xLP (not the recent reissue) that sounds quite nice.

    I didn't really like the Cure remasters on CD from a few years back so I have avoided the remastered vinyl. That said I will probably get the Mixed Up 3xCD soon. In general my go to versions for the Cure have always been old 80s Elektra and W.G. Fiction CD versions, which I've never had any problem with. The old vinyl is difficult to find anymore at sane prices for top condition here in the U.S. Not worth the hassle to me personally unless it shows up by dumb luck at a local shop in my area as happened with Pornography.
     
  24. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    marcfeld69 likes this.
  25. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Thank you for the input. When I bought the reissue of standing on the beach I didn't like it at all. I must say that listening to it several times recently I didn't think it was so bad after all but I am sure I can get better.

    You talk about sane prices, you can imagine what is like for me being in Australia. I can get some LP's posted from the US for USD25 but it is very common that the postage requested is about USD40 sometimes even more so I have little room for error when choosing a pressing and seller. Postage from the UK tends to be cheaper but not by a lot and it is catching up.

    I did buy the acoustic hits which I don't have anything to compare it against but it does sound pleasing, at least to me. Thank you again for the input.
     
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