First turntable - Denon DP-300F - should I upgrade the stylus?

Holy Crap guys......
This is in the Forum under 'Hardware For Sale', Look at the tone arm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look Familiar??? That's the design they used for the 300F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
here:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/denon-dp-790-direct-drive-turntable.413439/

 

As car as the feet go, I found them to be useless. I had BAD vibration issue with the Denon that I did not have with my Technics. After REMOVING the feet, all my vibrations went away

 

Ah.......different environments indeed. In my lr, they work really well, that is until our new 4 month old kitty jumps on top of the dustcover.
But i've never seen feet like this before. Even though you disagree, i will say they are a neat desighn.
The beave

 

They seem too "springy" to and me

 

Well remember its not a very 'heavy' tt. But again different environments. Doesn't surprise me. But I still think it has a great tone arm!
The beave

 

There doesn't seem to be a universal 'foot' that will work well in all environments. If I were designing the ultimate turntable, it would be designed to have 3 feet, not 4, and it would come with a modular 'foot' system with a variety of suspensions...firm, soft, sproingy, solid. At least that would help one get a start on dialing in the TT to the room without strange looking items like tennis ball halves, racquetball halves, foam, sand, inner tubes, so on.

 

LOL!! Like the 2" Sorbathane 'racquetball halves' I'm using as feet on the 518!!!!!!!
And they work really really well, that's the funny thing. But seriously Mikay, that is such a great idea and if you use screw in studs on the feet they could be easily interchanged. I think I saw something like this on the MHall 5.1's bottom, but I'm not positive that was the deck but I saw multiple metal 'sleeves' that were in the wood of the bottom with threads. But there was no mention anywhere about the possibility of using other feet for the unit. So why were the sleeves there with no feet to put in them????? Dunno. But your idea is very workable AND not really expensive. In Fact, some one could easily engineer a table for under $800 that A) has a top notch DC Belt Drive motor. B) nice Acrylic Platter C) remove able/replace able feet with 4 different levels of 'dampning' for different environments. D)And a nice Carbon Fiber Tone Arm
E) and semi automatic operation so someone can fall asleep without their needle scraping the hell out of the lead out groove.



See.....now your getting me going.....
damn.
the beave

 

Maybe we need to buddy up to those kids in Boston who build the Orbit, eh? LOL I have lots of great ideas...just no money to implement them!

BTW, my 518 is at our off-grid, solar powered cabin. It sits on 3 racquetball halves that are tucked into square furniture leg sliders that have little pointed feet to grab carpet. They sit on a 1" slab of granite that sits upon a corner of the kitchen counter in the cabin. (it's a small place...no room for a 'rack') And they do work really, really well! I first used racquetball halves to solve a bouncy floor issue in my old house.

 

Some kit responds well to sorbothane and similar squishy substances while other prefer spikes (wood, metal or something like RDC).

 

I think it more depends on what the TT is placed on.

 

I think it depends on a whole host of variables...no two room/turntable/furniture combinations ever seem to be alike. Short of hanging the turntables from the ceiling -- which never seems to fail, it's always a lot of trial and error. Usually takes me about 6 months to really get a TT dialed into a room.

 

Isn't it amazing how sometimes things like this will work really well?? I also like the slab o' granite. That's some solid foundation.
Yesterday was a burn out day so I didn't get to track anything on the Denon. What I did do though is pick up two more AT100E carts off of Amazon. At $70 each their a steal. And again, on the Denon playing the DMM German White Album, I heard the master tape characteristics CLEARLY. An amazing feat for a $140 cart and a $349 tt.

Have a good morning.
the beave

 

Hey folks, I'm a newbie to this forum.
I have a DP300F in transit on it's way to me. This will be an upgrade from my totally non-adjustable Marantz TT5005.
I haven't even heard the Denon and it's stock cart and stylus yet, and I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised.
I know the Ortofon and AT carts keep getting good reviews, but I'm kinda liking the look of the Shure M97XE. Plus I've heard they come boxed with a free VTF gauge.
Are they a contender?

 

HEY - WELCOME to the forum !!!

http://www.needledoctor.com/Shure-M97XE seems like a decent cart, I haven't researched it compared to say the Ortofon Red (same price). I had a version similar to this a long time ago (I think I had the M95HE). It seemed good but if you spend more you get more. This is of course not always the case with all things but seems pretty true with high end carts. The question always is: will I be able to hear the difference in my system?

And another bottom line always is: how much money can I spend (or get away with spending if you're married)? I'd say listen to the stock (?) cart for a while and see if you like it first. If it sounds dull or other than good (compared to CD or decent resolution mp3 (192kbps or higher)), and you can spend $100, get the Shure (or Red or ???). I'd look at reviews of that against the Red or other $100 carts tho and see what you think (sounds like you've done this and the Shure seems like it would be 'the one for you').

Hard to say at what point one can be 'certain' to hear differences between say $100 and $300 carts ... I had a $400 system in 1976 (Pioneer SX-450 receiver, Pioneer speakers and a BSR TT). I think this was the TT/system I upgraded from a $40? or something cart to a $100 cart, and I could tell the difference. So maybe it doesn't take an 'expensive' system to hear differences.

I know in my system, when I got my current Denon DL-160 cart (was $160 or something but is discontinued now) I listened very intently to the same record and CD. For all practical purposes they sounded the same in every aspect I care about, which I thought was pretty good for a 40 year old TT (Thorens TD145) and a $160 cart vs. a $1400 CD player.

Well, I'll stop blathering on now ... good luck!

PS: Can't resist - as others probably said, best to get an external phono preamp (or use the one in your preamp/integrated amp if you have one). Actually try both of course and see which one sounds better. I'm actually thinking about getting this TT sometime ...

 

Thanks Rick58!
That's a good point you made about system quality.
As I will be using the Denon's on-board pre-amp and running through an EQ into a fairly standard home hi-fi set up, I probably won't notice most of the nuances between carts.
I'll roll with the stock'o for a while!
Cheers.

 

Certainly worth just listening for a while and see how you like the sound. Curious if you could list your 'standard hi-fi' gear, don't be shy or embarassed, all of us started somewhere! and there are many folks who have vintage/less expensive gear, and some placement of speakers and inexpensive tweaks here and there can work wonders! As with my Pioneer system, you may indeed be able to hear sonic differences between carts, it's just impossible to know until you try. I'd say listen to the stock cart/TT and try to compare to a CD of the same music (if you have a CD or other digital source). If the CD sounds way better try to figure out what sounds different about it. Be sure to 'match' the loudness as closely as possible, as the louder one will sometimes seem to sound better. Is the EQ only going between the TT and system? or is it integrated into the whole system? May be possible to EQ the TT until it sounds more like the CD (if that's a good thing!). Sometimes TTs can sound better than CDs ...

I used to use an Apple Airport Express to stream music from my computer thru my stereo. I found I needed a little bass CUT and maybe some treble boost to make that source sound like the same music on my CD player.

Please post your impressions of the Denon player, compared to your present TT. Hopefully it'll sound better! and if so, maybe you could later try a new cart ...

 

Hey Rick58, the DP300F turned up on my doorstep about 3 hours ago!!
After a prolonged setup ( I don't rush these things ) and the opening of a brewskie, I have spun it's first vinyl.
I'm very happy.
Sound quality was as good as I hoped it would be.
No speed or tacking issues...the LP played great.
My biggest concern was my Marantz TT5005 may have been damaging my vinyl tracking @ 4.5 grm ( ouch...since corrected to 3.2 grm with a carefully placed coin)...but the Denon played this one fine with only the odd pop and crackle here and there...but that just let's you know your listening to vinyl!
I had to drop the bass and raise the trebles a bit on the EQ, but nothing drastic.
I'll keep the Marantz ( coin and all!! ) for my second-hand stuff, but I'm totally happy with the Denon and can now have some peace of mind playing new vinyl.
My stereo is not much to talk about, a Panasonic SC-AKX54.
But it's LOUD!!!
I have the Denon and Marantz running through the EQ and then into the aux in on the stereo.
Quick question...if a cart's recommended VTF is 2 grm, 2.1 grm or 2.2 grm should be reasonably okay, shouldn't it??

 

Okay...slight azimuth issue that i have now fixed.
When installing the headshell, apply a reasonable amount of force to the right of the shell as you twist left on the tonearms connector.
Or opposite, depending on your azimuth issue.

 

Shemp I'll bet that Denon is a HUGE upgrade over the Marantz!!!! Next an intetgrated amp/receiver and some speakers. That little Panasonic SC-AKX54 looks like a cute little "executive" type system but nothing beats a proper receiver/speaker combo.

 

Hey, sorry I missed your posting last week, glad it arrived and sounds good. I don't know for sure, and of course one can get really obsessed with such things, but I'd say +/-0.2 gram isn't anything to worry about. The carts likely have a recommended range and things always have some 'tolerance' so I wouldn't worry about it.

I have a ~$180 cart (the most expensive one I've ever owned) and I just balanced the thing at "0.0" grams on the tonearm scale, then twisted it to whatever (2.0 grams, say) and left it there. I haven't even used a scale to test the setting ... maybe I'm foolish but haven't seen nor heard anything amiss. One of these days I'll buy a cheap digital scale (good to +/-0.1 grams, I think) that seems OK to me.

I'd agree now that you have a nice TT you might eventually want a better integrated amp or receiver and speakers! Of course, there's 100s of variations on all that, ranging from $300 - $1,000,000 ...

I'd also set what you have up for optimum stereo listening, if you're able: speakers in an equilateral triangle arrangement (or close), say 6' apart while listening from 6' away, etc.. If you haven't done this sort of thing you're missing out on a lot of good things that are in your vinyl (soundstaging/imaging in particular). I'll stop now before I type 4 pages on the subject ... happy listening!

 

Huh, I would think there's a pin/slot to set this alignment ...? hopefully so. Maybe there's enough play in the slot though that one can tilt things over ... but certainly good to get this as 'square' as possible by eye at least. There's really advanced techniques and meters/test records, etc. that one can get into if desired, but for modest systems like ours, careful setup by eye on most things should be sufficient (IMHO). I think setting overhang using a template of some kind (measuring and resetting if necessary tonearm pivot to stylus distance at two points across where a record's grooves would be) is definitely a good thing. This will reduce distortion at the beginning and/or end of a side. There's free ones you can print out/scale and use ... of course if you move the cart back and forth (of course making sure it's "square" to the grooves too), you must rebalance/reset tracking force ...

Maybe the setup procedure spelled this out and/or you have set the 'overhang' in another manner. I think the main thing is in the listening ... if there's increased distortion at the end of a side, this may be the culprit (among other things of course).

 

That's what I'd do with my current cart, which I love.

Never had the tonearm acting out in that way in 20 year with my auto TT (I adjusted that function myself). It did happen a lot when I tried to hit the lead-in on my previous 2 auto-return TTs.

 

Just to clarify, I didn't say 'Never use any auto TT to set on the record', I quoted a review that stated this. I DID say 'why get an auto TT and not use it?' ... !

General question on this topic: is there anything wrong with setting (or letting the stylus be set) on the non-grooved portion of the record just outside the groove, and then 'slide' into the groove? I've been doing it that way all my life (unless trying to hit a particular song in the middle of a side). Never seemed to be a problem, and I ain't gonna change!

 

Wrong ? No; it's desirable ! I'm just too clumsy to accomplish it correctly. It's only I always seemed to drop it a)outside the lp b) in a groove where the song had already started, missing the lead-in/intro whatever. And my eyesight was 20/20; would not want to try now I use reading glasses

 

Hey, yeah a pin on the headshell and a slot in the tonearm...and a fraction of play, although i think when i first installed it just the drag of screwing on the connector was enough to pull it fractionally over, so i just had to counteract that with a tiny bit of pressure in the opposite direction.
Looks flat and sounds fine.
The instructions have a simple overhang set-up. 45mm from the tonearm connection. This stock cart came pre-installed in the headshell so i didn't have to do that...and it looks good and sounds fine...no outer or inner groove distortion.
I'm looking foward to hearing it with a nice Shure or AT cart, but that might be awhile yet, considering i'd like to order a second headshell for said cart, too.
But yeah, i've had the DP300F for almost 2 months, and no problems at all.
My poor ol' TT5005 is sitting there all neglected and stuff...i'll give it a spin next weekend!!!