First Watt M2 or J2

I bought a lot of cables as demo units from dealers in the US (power cables, biwire jumpers) and 90% of them needed burn-in. Years ago, when I bought my speakers, they had been sitting in the dealer's shop for 9 months. Even so, after I had brought them home, it took a month of playing music through them before they sounded right.

I don't know about the US, but over here I never see dealers leave gear on overnight to burn in and rarely they play music in the shop. When does the gear get through burn-in phase? And if you ask them to borrow something to listen to, they will give it to you over a weekend. Naturally, you find out that the thing is brand new, but you still have to take it back on Monday. Ok, rant over.

Basically, whatever a dealer says, I would mostly ignore. YMMV.

On another note, why would someone with a set amp want a SS amp for sonic reasons? I would understand the convenience factor, though.

 

These are supposed to be great amps, I wish I had a local dealer....

 

The J2 is also a single ended amp using a JFET for the output device. Single ended with lower distortion and some feedback.

The review on Sixmoons refers to the J2's "aroma." It does seem to impart its own subtle sound, which I have been able to mask a bit, but not eliminate. It will be going back today. Perhaps, an F5 might do the trick.

 

On paper the F5 looks like the best of the First Watt offerings.

6 Moons certainly gave it a good review: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/firstwatt7/f5.html

 

Well, the J2 has left the building; however, I should note that some of my earlier comments were perhaps not fair to the amp. I think that the biggest problem I was having was with the interface between the DAC and the J2. The DAC does have an output impedance of 1K ohm and the J2 has an input impedance of 100K, so it should work fine. Perhaps, the J2 is so neutral that I was hearing the sound of my DAC more accurately and not liking it. Whatever the case may be, running the CD player straight into the J2 gave a fine accounting. The "aroma" Srajen referenced and that I thought I heard was basically gone.

Not sure if my DAC will mate well with the F5 either. I may need a complete system alteration including a new Pass preamp to best appreciate the First Watt sound. Its too bad that he does not make an integrated version.

 

THAT would be my dream come true!

An alternate dream would be the F5 driven by a nice tube preamp.

 

I have an XA 30.5, which is a 30 watt amp. I've had it in my system since June 2010. I used it with Zu Essence speakers, which ran 97db at 12 Ohms. Generally speaking, I did not run into power adequacy issues. If I understand the Pass Lab approach, even a 30 watt amp, and presumably this is applicable to the First Watt series, has more power, because it switches from class a to b.

In terms of the amps, the XA was a wonderful amp. It got to levels that I was comfortable listening to in a 18' X 45' room. It's mids and highs were tight, and it delivered a respectable bass. The sound is much more warm than a Class D amp, but in my set-up I still yearned for more warmth on the highs.

As it turns out, the issue was not the amp, but that my Zu speakers' ribbon tweeter did not play nicely with it. Even Zu acknowledged that the Ribbon preferred a tubed product. And, FWIW, even with limited testing with the new tubed amp referenced below, they seem to be right.

That said, because I had a class d before it, the improvements were HUGE! And I really liked the amp. Pass makes terrific products, and like everything else, the whole configuration should be evaluated. I've since (as of this week) grabbed a pair of the Sophia Electric 300B tubed mono amps, and now have them in my system. The Pass is here at the office getting ready to go on the market...

 

I don't know. The Art Audio DAC uses the preamp board from the Art Audio line, 2 output transformers, and a ladder volume control, so it basically operates just like a tube preamp. Perhaps, it wasn't clean enough sounding to do the J2 justice. The amp does not need any warmth in front of it.

That being said, perhaps the input section of the J2 is extra finicky. An audition of the F5 with the same DAC would shed some light on that, though shipping to Reno from Cleveland is a bit steep. 75.00 for ground shipping with insurance on a 30 lb. box.

 

I never had an issue with highs with the J2. The issue was that depending on what was driving it, their was this warm coloration and disjointed sound. Certain ICs seemed to make things worse; however, when I ran those same ICs directly from the output of the solid state player everything sounded great. I have had no issues running the DAC into the Carissa, which has an input impedance of 600K. Perhaps, I will write Mr. Pass.

 

Ouch - that seems excessive!

Maybe an alternative would be to watch for a good deal on a used F5. Then, if you are not thrilled with it you could sell and recoup your dough.

...Although I don't really want any additional prospective buyers snapping one out from underneath me.

EDIT:

I contacted him once regarding the Aleph 30 and received a reply in an hour.

 

Yep. He has already gotten back with me. He pretty much stated that the F5 and J2 won't sound all that much different given the situation, and that the impedance should not be an issue. I guess if do make the change, the DAC will have to go.

 

6 Moons seems to have arrived at a similar conclusion, writing in their review of the F5:

 

Sixmoons sure has a different way of phrasing it though.

 

You got that right!

One needs hip-boots to wade through all their sophistry.

 

The F5 is in the house. Unlike the J2, no compatibility issues with it and the DAC. Will give it some time to run in. Initial impression is quite positive, clear and warm, but the isn't there yet.

 

Looking forward to your impressions!

 

Well, firstly, it doesn't have that somewhat unique sound that the J2 had, which was sort of like a better chip amp. The F5 reminds me more of a solid state amp.

Compared to the SET, it is obviously more linear. In this case that means less in the upper bass and upper midrange. Horns have less bite and acoustic bass has a little less drive. The F5 is not as liquid, whereas in its own way the J2 could be. Tonally, the F5 is more warmish than the J2, closer to th Art Audio.

 

That's one of my current setups and I love it. While the SET amp still has a touch more magic, I'm willing to give up a few molecules of it to have more consistency and to minimize screwing around with tubes...

 

What, are you reading my thoughts now?

The SET has more magic, but it also has a little more glare, a lot more heat and upkeep cost. I have 10 days to decide, and frankly it is a coin toss at this point. Give up some magic for more consistency and less headache....

 

Ha!

that's why the only tubes I have in my main system are in the ARC REF 2 phono. The Burmester stuff is so good, no need to hunt for power tubes anymore. Still have a couple of tube amps but only once in a while for fun!

 

Tonepub, did your F5 continue to improve over time? It seems to be sounding more lively and musical as burn in continues, but it could be just me.

 

Yes it did, but again, not having a lot of exotic caps under the hood after a few days it was sounding pretty good. I'd say 50 hours or less and you should be rolling.

 

I think that the amp is pretty close to where it will end up then. It certainly is a very reasonable product. Quiet, smooth, dynamic. By contrast the SET is more harmonically lush, as the reviewers say, across the frequency spectrum. It is also noisier, which is easy to hear when swapping back and forth. I guess that it comes down to preference; smooth, quiet, warm, and dynamic vs. harmonically rich, airier, and more full bodied in the upper bass. I could understand people keeping both.

I don't have access to a good push/pull tube amp any longer. I wonder if the F5 sounds anything like one of those?

 

A friend of mine uses the J2 on the bottom end of an active triamplified system. I've also heard the J2 running his system full range (107 db/w efficient horns).

Just for fun, I borrowed the J2 for a week. It sounded quite good for a solid state amp--free of grain, very clear and detailed, and no edge (artificially sharp initial attack to a note). The amp sounded very lively and music sounded very dynamic even at lower volume.

Compared to my SET amps, the primary area where it did not show up as well was soundstaging. It did not deliver the same kind of wide and tall soundstage and the soundfield was not as enveloping. Also, notes did not seem to bloom into space and decay in quite as natural a way. But, I still enjoyed the amps a whole lot.

As far as practicality is concerned, I would agree that this is a really enticing amp for anyone with modest power needs. It is very quiet in both operation and when being turned off and on (no annoying thumps). The only operational issue is that it takes some time after being turned to be at its best (most solid state gear takes longer to warm up than tube gear) and I would be a bit hesitant to keep it on all the time because it does get pretty hot.

 

Your quandary sounds very familiar. I have two good amps on hand, either of which I can live happily with. I just wish I could combine the strengths of both into one package.