FISHER all-tube receivers from 1961-66 are cheap and sound wonderful!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Steve Hoffman, Apr 27, 2010.

  1. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Keep in mind that the Fisher probably won't have enough power to drive KEFs in a large room, but in my small (9 x 12) listening room, the combination is wonderful.

    Keep in mind that the Six was developed during the tube era! I used to use KLH Sixes with a 20 wpc tube amp in my living room, and that amp drove the Sixes effortlessly.
     
  2. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    [QUOTE="action pact, post: 11283153, member: 14144



    Keep in mind that the Six was developed during the tube era! I used to use KLH Sixes with a 20 wpc tube amp in my living room, and that amp drove the Sixes effortlessly.[/QUOTE]

    Yup you're right. There really is something special with the 400/KLH combo. I date my 400 to about '64, about 5 years after the KLH's. And my 2 primary turntables are same era. They all play really well together.
     
  3. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I've had a small 13w Pioneer integrated, a Sansui AU-717, a Marantz integrated (used) and a Crown DC-300A, back in the 70's.

    While I thought they were clean and full sounding, through my A7's, there was always something in my mind about that sound that I could not describe. That is the word "DRY", without moisture = not liquid sounding.

    I just ordered a pair of vintage Electro Voice Aristocrat speakers from eBay a couple of days back, restored and modded. Looking forward to a Fisher 400B for my next purchase.
     
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  4. Charles F

    Charles F Active Member

    I love old Fishers too and own a couple but there is definitely nothing dry about a '70s era solid state Simi Valley Marantz or any of the good ones from Sansui.
    The tubed hybrid, 7591 based Sansui 1000A when well serviced will give any Fisher a run for it's money and in most instances better it. More powerful and better pre-amp, a reverse hybrid, solid state pre with a tubed power amp and tuner.
    More power, more flexible with the inputs, better controls, a phase reverse switch and level controls, just an all around winner.
    Still love my Fishers though! :)
    It's like everything Japanese from that time, they took someone else's work and figured out a way to make it better.
    The Fishers are easier to work on, that's for sure.
     
  5. ehtoo

    ehtoo Forum Resident

    Purchased my 500B several years back and enjoy it immensely. Don't have a headphone jack in this model but, it would be nice to have 4 7591's behind the phones. I don't know how cheap these units are any more after the Stereophile article and subsequent increase in demand. VTV magazine also did a nice feature on Fisher amps/receivers. I've seen some large price tags of late.
     
  6. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Definitely not cheap anymore, but still offer great value.
     
  7. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    500B is my favorite of all the Fisher's that I've used, including a 500C, 400, X-101-C, and 30A mono blocks. Seems to have just the right amount of balls and sweetness. 400 comes next. A proper working Fisher receiver is about as good as it gets on my scorecard. Their tuners are strong, and the phono and tone tubes really respond well to tube rolling. Plus they look great. Best all in one package I've ever owned.
     
  8. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Yeah, my 400 is a total keeper. The legendary 'audiodon' of AudioKarma.org (who lives in the next town from me) did extensive resto-mods to it, making it a true high-end performer. Unfortunately Don is dealing with some serious health issues and will not be able to work on tube amps anymore, so I cherish my Fisher that much more.

    Incidentally, I had the opportunity last Sunday to meet the other Fisher master tech of AudioKarma, Dave Gillespie of Georgia, who came up to spend some time with Don.
     
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  9. Charles F

    Charles F Active Member

    You do the IBAM on yours?
     
  10. Charles F

    Charles F Active Member

    Definitely not cheap anymore!
    I lucked up and found mine in a classified ad posted by an elderly couple.
     
    action pact likes this.
  11. geoffr

    geoffr Lifeguard in a carwash

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I happened to look at CL one afternoon at work a couple of years ago and saw a 400 for $75. It was a guy clearing out his mom's apartment. I think that I broke a few laws driving to the place. Had it restored and listening right now with Heresys.
     
  12. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Sho 'nuff!
     
  13. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    Only when it breaks.
     
  14. Burt

    Burt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kirkwood, MO
    You can get them pretty close at the manufacturing level if you are willing to put the time into it, but the real solution is always a precision stepped attenuator, which can be made as accurate as you want, and very accurate without great effort. A hobbyist with a few hours, a stable source, and a HP 410 VTVM can make them to .05 dB at all settings which is close enough for me.
     
  15. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    For my tube system I use a pair of restored KLH Model 5 speakers from 1968 with a Fisher 500C and it's a great combo. I use a Dual 1019 from Bill at fixmydual.com to keep it vintage. I agree that Fisher/KLH combo is golden.
     
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  16. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    I've used my KLH 5's with my 500B and they do very well. When I first teamed them up I was concerned it wouldn't be enough power, but it wasn't a problem. And the combination is smoother with the 500B then with any other amp I've teamed them with. Will have to get them back in the rotation. Lately I've been hooked on a pair of Wharfedale W60's, along with my KLH Model Six's with the Fisher. Lots of magic dust flying around with them and the 500B.
     
  17. adamdube

    adamdube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Elyria, OH USA
    My 400 is off with a tech right now getting the proper treatment. I plan on deploying a pair of Infinite Slope .6's with it. at 90db efficiency and 10-200 watts operating range I think they will be a nice combo
     
  18. Jef Stratton

    Jef Stratton Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Genesee, Michigan
    Price tags now a typically $500 for a restorable 500C and $1000 - $2000 for a restored unit. I bought a 400 daily driver with nearly all original tubes including the output tubes for $300. I used it for 2 years before relocating and having to put it in storage for some months. When I pulled it out and hooked it up it now has distortion all sources through both speakers and phones. Time for a restoration. It is in beautiful cosmetic condition and I will construct a cabinet. Incidentally, I used it to drive a pair of Vandersteen 2ce Signature's and the combination is magical! My room isn't cavernous @ 14' X 17' and is open to the kitchen so add another 14' X 14' but it fills the space with music. Glorious music! True it doesn't have the slam of a fire breathing solid state behemoth, but it will surprise here even with large orchestral works. With chamber works like Beethoven's sonatas for Piano and Violin Vladimir Ashkenazi Itzhak Perlman on London Records it's simply stunning. The Civil Wars Joy Williams and John Paul White raise goosebumps! Vandersteens like tubes! I wouldn't mind more power but not at the expense of soundstaging, imaging, bloom. Their ability to float a 3D image in front of and between or beyond the speakers is other worldly. Steely Dan, The Who, Neil Young, Sting, The Beatles, REM... You get the idea. Don't think you have to limit yourself to Klipschhorns, Altec A7's, JBL Paragon's or a Electovoice Patrician's. My 400 has more intestinal fortitude than you wod think.
     
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  19. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    That is what is nice about the amps in the 30-watt range. You don't have to limit yourself to high efficiency speakers. 30-watts is more than enough power to drive most speakers.

    I am looking to find a restored unit in the 1K range. If I was getting the 2K range, I think that I would spend an extra grand and set my sites on a pair of restored (and not modded) MC-30's.

    Today, for many it's all about power and bass slam. That is just another of the many dimensions in the audio world. I will take music that actually has bloom, imaging and that simply sounds good. That is the direction, I am intending head toward next. I have had enough ear pounding. Now I would rather prefer an ear massage.
     
  20. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Interestingly, my 14 wpc '59 Fisher X-100 seems to be a bit more powerful with my KEF LS50's than a 28 wpc Fisher 400.

    Too bad you missed out on the restored 400 I just sold in the Classifieds!

    It sounds like a vintage Fisher is just what you need!
     
  21. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    With the prices creeping skyward on the 400, 500, and 800 (thanks to threads like this one), keep your eyes open for the smaller integrated amps that have no tuner.

    Earlier this year I acquired a restored brass-faced '59 Fisher X-100 amp (14 wpc, EL-84's) for just $400, and I was surprised to find that I preferred it to the 400. The 400 has a rich, deeply satisfying sound, but the X-100 is quicker and sweeter.

    The early X-100 also has some nifty features, like a tube rectifier and inputs for two turntables (one is 47k ohms and one is 100k ohms though).

    [​IMG]

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    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
    MarioHead, inperson, Simon A and 4 others like this.
  22. Gang-Twanger

    Gang-Twanger Forum Resident

    I never had the room for A7's, Klipschorns, or especially Patricians, which give a new meaning to the term "behemoth". Not the size as much as the decibels. That's the issue. Those get loud real fast. Even a pair of Symphonies would be a bit too much in terms of room-filling volume (That's why I have the speakers I do... They can fill a room at amazingly-comfortable background levels... The Brits lived in duplexes and other smaller-sized rooms whereas people in the US, comparitively-speaking, had a bit more breathing room when it came to speaker-placement and listening, so they needed big speakers that could fill a room without the neighbors calling the local constable... My W90's were actually designed for US listeners, but it still has the same signature sound as the models they designed for the British market... Just a little more bass... And they have the same ability to fill a room without the volume level getting out of control... That was important for me... I still wouldn't mind a pair of large Vandersteens or DCM's if they can image well at lower levels).

    But back to the Fishers. They have that natural, perfect midrange and silky-smooth treble that is reserved for the best high-end, upper-tier hi fi gear, plus they have that engaging quality that so much modern gear does not. Once I heard that, I was hooked. That's the sound for me, I was saying to myself. I thought it was quite a thing to see this comment by Peter Breuniger:

    "I've auditioned many classic vintage amplifiers over the years. The Fisher 500-C is very special, with that rare ability to draw me into the sound and the music. It's in the same league as the first wave of SET all stars: Baby Ongaku (footnote 6) Wavelength Cardinal, Welborne Laurel, Komuro 845, and Wright Sound WPA 3.5. The Fisher's line stage is clear, concise, and crisp, though not as crystalline-pure as the Convergent Audio Technology Ultimate's.
    Read more at Fisher 500-C vintage stereo receiver Page 2 »"

    That's quite a boast, but the Fishers really are in the major leagues when it comes to that ability to draw you into the music. It helps if it's a great analog recording with lots of depth. Those are the ones that really sound alive and REAL. For example, take the Beastie Boys' "Ill Communication", which might be the best-sounding rap album ever made. TONS of depth and a heaping helping of that "breath of life" that you hear people talk about (Whoever mixed that one is a sonic mastermind). When I play even a 320kbps mp3 of that original CD, my system springs to life like I put on a mid '60's RCA Living Stereo recording, and this is an early '90's rap album I'm talking about. Thankfully, the Fishers with the right speakers (or headphones in the case of the *00C-era models) are great with average-quality classic rock albums from the late '60's and early to mid '70's, and what Breuniger said about the simple, yet effective tone control section is 100% true. You can add a little (or in some cases a lot of) bass or bass & treble and turn a bad recording into a very-listenable or even great recording. Works great with live soundboard recordings, old mono-era stuff, less-than-stellar '60's rock/pop recordings, etc. I love the 500C/800C's tone control section.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
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  23. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    That is what I have been figuring? I have several SS (Peachtree, Emotiva First Watt, Crown and a few tube amps, from Rogue & a 3.9-watt sweet sounding Decware.

    I know, As it happened, I had just checked the classified's right before you listed it. I saw your post, calling another member's attention to your listing. I DID, go back and checked it out only to find "SOLD!" (some SHF's wascally wabbit " bought it!). :eek: (It's all good, it went to a good home) If you get wind of another one, a PM would be appreciated.

    I have heard a lot of good things about the LS50. They are further down the bucket list, unless, of course, one of those unheard of deals should come along.

    I have been given to understand, through user feedback, that these require more powerful amps for them to shine with a sensitivity on the low side at 85dB. That would make sense to me.

    Seems strange, given their popularity, them having only a frequency response of 79dB, yes, of course, they do play lower, but this is a standard measurement.

    Still, rather peculiar that half the wattage of the Fisher's would power them better, curious?

    I am also curious, about using Fischer's with vintage speakers and support equipment vs. modern tower designs.

    Gang Twanger recommends vintage Warferdale W-90's from the early 60's.

    I see... The-X100's are EL-84's, better yet! Nice mid's like EL-34's but with a sweeter sound.

    That's the ticket.
     
  24. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    F.Y.I. if you do not overload the input from the preamp to the power amp and use a power amp of modest power, A7's and Klipschorns won't get too loud too fast. They both, being as efficient as they are, sound good at lower sound dB levels. And they still sound real, not thin. My room is about 20' across and about 450 sq.ft. I sit about 13' from each A7. Because of their directivity, room boundaries have a less effect on them than regular cone speakers.

    I'm listening to Enya right now through the A7's only, with the sound level at a quiet average of 50dB. No trouble contoling the volume in small increments.

    I can stand 5' in front of the A7's and get a well balanced sound. They are my goto for near field speakers. :laugh:
     
  25. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    You betcha. I do know where some "project" Fishers might be lurking, but restored ones are harder to source...

    Right, common wisdom says that they need juice to really sing, but I think that they just need some good, clean power, and the Fishers do have some great iron.

    Just to be clear, though, I wouldn't expect to fill a large room with big sound using this rig, but in my 8 x 12 room at moderate volume, it works out great.

    Yeah, that's the part that I can't figure out.


    I've played around with several well-regarded period-correct speakers - KLH Six, AR4x, etc. - in restored condition using both tubes and solid state, and I just felt that they were lacking compared to more modern designs. I do prefer the look of vintage speakers though...

    Yup, my X-100 really surprised me when I swapped it in. I didn't expect it to impress me nearly as much as it did - and it cost mere peanuts!
     
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