‘Francis Albert Sinatra & Antonio Carlos Jobim’ Expanded 50th Anniversary Edition

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Bob F, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    It's amazing how these sonic dissections change your perception of a recording you've heard a thousand times before. I now find myself listening for things like Sinatra's "ching-chings" and whether Jobim's guitar and vocals are left or right of center. Never gave much notice to those, and now they've become my central focus when listening to various versions of this album (unfortunately).
     
  2. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA

    YES! YES! YES!!!!!! @Bob F

    With all due LOVE and RESPECT to @MLutthans , et al.... I have referred to these dissections of Mr. S recordings as "Paralysis By Analysis". The information that can be derived from the "digging in" to the who, what, when, where, why and how of a recording is absolutely amazing and incredible. However, I find myself (as you) now looking at this album (and the other album currently on the Musical Medical Examiner's table Great Songs From Great Britain) in a whole different light. Listening for things that I never did before. Analyzing instead of just LISTENING & ENJOYING!

    Again, no knocks on my fellow Sinatraphile nutcases, just acknowledging that I am currently going thru the same symptoms as Bob.

    IS THERE A DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE??????????:faint::faint:
     
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  3. Ronald Sarbo

    Ronald Sarbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, NY, USA
    Bob has convinced me but now I am confused between left and right. If I am facing my stereo wearing headphones and I hear the chings with my right ear am I hearing a Pauk Mock "reverse negative"?
     
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  4. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    Headphones almost always have a left-right (L/R) designation. If the right earphone is over your right ear, you should be hearing the right channel as you face your stereo.
     
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  5. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    You need to do this, Ron:


    Seriously, if you compare this new CD to the same ten tracks on the Concord complete Sinatra/Jobim edition, I think you'll find that Tom and his guitar is on the opposite (right) side of center on that one. Different Larry Walsh remix.

    P.S. I don't think your stereo knows which way you are facing. ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  6. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    For me, the analysis of these records has enhanced my enjoyment and increased the time spent listening to them.

    I plan to use the information on this particular record to verify if any of my copies are original. If not, I will get one.

    I still listen and enjoy the music immensely.

    Edit- and as stated before by me, the FS threads are by far the best thing about this forum!
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Sadly, Gary Doctor is no longer with us.

    It's ALWAYS about the music for me! From my website alone -- just examples that come to mind:
    Screen shot 2017-04-15 at 9.22.25 AM.png
    (Check out the last sentence there.)
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    Screen shot 2017-04-15 at 9.24.06 AM.png
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    Screen shot 2017-04-15 at 9.25.43 AM.png
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    Screen shot 2017-04-15 at 9.30.21 AM.png
    From a private conversation a few days ago involving three of our frequent Sinatra-ites:
    I've been curious about recording matters since I was a kid. (Yeah...I was the weird kid - and I mean a YOUNG kid -- who was reading the back of Mercury LP jackets and wondering, "What's an RCA 44-dx" or "What does an Ampex tape machine look like?" It has always fascinated me.) However: What draws me to play a record more than once? The music! I have gobs of records that I bought for some technical reason, and most of them are "one timers," meaning that I play them one time to check out what's going on, but if the music doesn't grab me, it gets filed, never to be touched again, no matter what "technical advance" may be on the recording. If I like a certain piece of music, though, why would I want to play something that sounds only "x-amount good" if I know there's a version on my shelf (or that is available) that is "x-amount plus 5" good? Geez, I've got some Dave Clark Five releases from "back in the day" on Epic records that I used to listen to, and I was perfectly happy with them, but then I got a fantabulous EMI release that sounds much, much better (and is in stereo, even), so if I want to hear "Can't You See That She's Mine," there is no way in heck that I'm going to ever reach for my old Epic LP (unless it's for pure nostalgia or something), and I will always reach for the EMI LP because the better sound draws me in to the MUSIC. I'll enjoy the music ok on either one, but I will enjoy it MORE on the EMI LP, and isn't enjoying music the whole point? Yes, it is, at least for me.

    You know, I was a teacher for 20 years, 12 of it in a classroom. My wife is on year 21 in the public schools. (Someday she may graduate.) You know what I hated about being a teacher more than just about anything else? It was when a student would do something, and it would be, say, 95% correct, and I would have to sit there and mark up their work and criticize that 5% that needed improvement. Generally speaking, you know what makes that kid do the same thing better then next time? It's the simeple awareness that something needed improvement. It's a rare time where you can say to a student, "You know, this is great, this is great, this is great, but do you see what happened here? Why don't you check that out and try it differently," and they come back next time and it's worse. No, it's almost always BETTER. A lot of these Sinatra things (or Dave Clark Five or Gwar or whoever) are 95 percent "just fine." I can listen to any release of any Sinatra recording and enjoy it. That said, I'd much rather listen to, for instance, "Anytime, Anywhere" without that annoying splice that so many versions have, or to FAS/ACJ that doesn't sound like it was recorded in an oxygen-free zone. The music will come through in spite of those things, but isn't it nice to find the version that doesn't have the annoying splice and that doesn't sound like it's recorded in an oxygen-free zone, and then to listen to and fully enjoy that version instead?

    (....but yes, comparing things does make my head spin sometimes!)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Just to remind you all, this is not a fan site, this is a site where the recordings are put under a spotlight to find THE BEST VERSION. That shouldn't ruin it for you, that should make you appreciate even more the hard work that went into the creation of your favorite music.
     
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  9. Ronald Sarbo

    Ronald Sarbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, NY, USA
    Steve: It was never my intention to turn your forum into my fan site.
     
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    You have lots of fans, Ron! :agree:
    I think that's correct, yes.
     
  11. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Absolutely.
     
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  12. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I hope my mention of "changed perceptions" was not misinterpreted as a criticism. I enjoy and welcome everything I can learn about the best sounding versions of Sinatra's music. It's just that sometimes that information forces a readjustment of longstanding preferences.

    I think @Steve Hoffman himself stated somewhere that his opinion of this FAS & ACJ album changed for the better once he'd remastered it. It's all good. :)
     
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  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    BTW, there are now at least three official (Universal Music Group) digital versions of this album available from online streaming sources, all different in subtle (or not so subtle) ways.

    Spotify:

    ℗ 2009: Francis Albert Sinatra & Antonio Carlos Jobim
    ℗ 2010: Sinatra/Jobim: The Complete Reprise Recordings
    ℗ 2017: Francis Albert Sinatra & Antonio Carlos Jobim (50th Anniversary Edition)

    YouTube:

    Published Mar 2016: Francis Albert Sinatra & Antonio Carlos Jobim - YouTube
    Published Feb 2017: Sinatra/Jobim: The Complete Reprise Recordings - YouTube
    Published Apr 2017: Francis Albert Sinatra & Antonio Carlos Jobim (50th Anniversary Edition) - YouTube

    I believe the first of the three issues in each list is the 1998 Reprise EOTC version, as reissued by UMG in the EU. The second is the 2010 Concord CD (again reissued by UMG in the EU). The third is the new 2017 UMe issue. All are licensed from Frank Sinatra Enterprises, LLC.
     
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  14. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    I knew I'd get static for my comments....especially from SH. BUT I did say I did so with all due LOVE & RESPECT. It was not meant as (or to be taken as) negative criticism. No one should have their knickers in a twist.
     
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  15. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    This great discussion led me to cancel my pre-order for the new vinyl release and order an original pressing. Without everyone's close examination of the new release, I would be stuck with a lesser release. Not the end of the world, of course, but why not have a better quality version of a great album. This site is the best!
     
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  16. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    "If you open your mouth please make sure what you say is more beautiful than silence!"

    We all need to follow this one - me included!

    :cool:

    Love these Sinatra threads!
     
  17. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    I went looking for the new Jobim LP yesterday in NH but came up empty. Maybe that's divine intervention, and I should really track down the 2004 Kevin Gray version instead.
     
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  18. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Yes, the K. Gray sounds great. But a used original might be cheaper and give as much pleasure.
     
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  19. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    Speak of the devil: my used original just arrived by mail about 10 minutes ago. It looks spotless. Excellent. I'll need to clean it off first, but I'm already pumped to listen to it.
     
  20. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    If it is a good, clean copy, I'd be most surprised if you did not instantly fall in love with it!
     
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  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    No static from me, Paul! I love all the conversations here.

    ( Not wearing knickers. Nothing twisted.)
     
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  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Well, truth be told this place IS a fan site, of course. But we dig deeper here which drives some people bonkers. But we should want to collect our favorite music without tossing money away. In other words, be informed buyers/collectors. This place helps with that!
     
  23. aussievinyl

    aussievinyl Appreciator Of Creative Expression

    Recently found another original vinyl of this for $2. Together with my original CD, I feel I'm not in the market for another version. I love the album, but there's something about having an original that does it for me. The cover is certainly worth framing - it captures the atmosphere of the music very well.
     
  24. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    I saw so many copies of this in used record stores back in the day. For like 2 $.. Should have bought them all. Who knew I'd grow to love this stuff?
     
  25. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    They're still out there. Now they usually go for about $10-12 for a clean one.
     

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