Cool! I have heard this set, but do not own it; now I do. (EDIT: The code does still work.) Question: I see that many tracks are listed as "album version," but I'M A FOOL TO WANT YOU is listed as "78 version." What's the difference?? Is there a difference? Thanks, Matt
I think you will love this set, Matt. I have no clue what those parenthetical song notations mean at PopMarket. They're probably some copywriter's error, as they make no sense. Some of the tracks listed as "Album Version" are in fact radio airchecks or previously unreleased alternate takes.
As a lurker in these Sinatra threads, a big "thank you" from me to everyone for the analysis of the discs-especially Bob F. and MLutthans! I picked up the Walsh discs as they trickled out in the late 80s and am extremely glad I never dumped them for the later "remastered" versions!
Not sure about anything re: "Fool" other than this...In this box set it is the 1st time in it's long-storied history that the sound is clear and clean. This recording (along with FS/TD "I'll Never Smile Again") had always evaded even the best possible remastering in improved sound quality. Whatever the gifted men who worked on "A Voice in Time" did to get this tune as clean as they did, they deserve a gold medal!
Bizarre as I received this today http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00000AEVG?tag=vglnkc4192-20 (The US Version) from an Amazon Seller who had it listed and pictured as the EMI/MFP CD and needless to say I was PISSED. It has the Songs for Young Lovers tracks 1st which made me immediately think I got the bad Norborg Mastering from 1998. Interestingly enough the date on the disc is 1987 Capitol Records and states that it was remastered by Larry Walsh at Capitol Studios. Also the barcode is 7777-48470-2! Now I'm really confused!!! Is this the 1998 Norberg Mastering that was just not labeled as such? What am I looking at in my hands right now? You guys have confused me w too much information HA!!!
That's the Amazon link for the Norberg remaster (bad). What you received was the Walsh version (better). Neither one is the same as the MFP disc (best).
I can't locate it right now, but a few days ago I saw a post on a Sinatra thread that was a type of score card of which LP and CD versions of each Capitol album were the best. It was incredibly helpful. I remember the last item at the end was Ring-a-Ding-Ding and I'm wondering if there's a similar score card for the Reprise albums. I ask because I have the suitcase and am not always thrilled with the sound quality but I'm a bit overwhelmed by the alternative options. There are the Entertainer of the Century reissues and now some albums have been released on Concord. I've followed some of the threads on the Forum and it seems that some of them are recommended and others aren't. And then there seem to be recent (within last few years) releases of the Reprise catalog in the UK. I'm mainly interested in all the 1960s Reprise albums plus She Shot Me Down. Not really looking to repurchase 70s Sinatra.
It's right here in this thread: [post=7871919]post #38[/post]. Matt has been analyzing the Sinatra albums chronologically. He just hasn't gotten far enough yet, but more Reprise albums should receive similar treatment in the future. Much has been said in other threads. I don't have time right now to locate the most appropriate links, but I can tell you this quickly... All of the recent reissues on the Universal label in the UK/Europe are identical in sound to earlier US Reprise CDs, with one significant exception: SHE SHOT ME DOWN is a new (better) mastering.
A sign sez the site is closed! A later post after the one above, give the score card .jpegs in a different post.
Oops--sorry--didn't go back far enough when I was looking for it. But that's very helpful to know about the Universal UK reissues. Thanks. And I'll pick up that remaster of She Shot Me Down. So then is it correct that as far as post-suitcase reissues of the 1960s Reprise albums (not compilations), there are only the EOTC and Concord releases to consider? Can you point me toward a list of which Reprise albums were part of the EOTC series? I've tried googling for a list but no luck. Are there any individual Reprise albums where a PRE-suitcase release is clearly preferable to suitcase, EOTC or Concord?
One word of caution about SHE SHOT ME DOWN... The first release by Universal contained the same digital masterings as the suitcase. That was replaced silently by a revised CD with a different mastering, which is the one you want for improved sound. The only way to tell them apart is by the length of the song "Hey Look, No Crying" or by the matrix info; there is no difference in the outer packaging. (See [post=5531669]here[/post] for all the gory details.) The original CDs should be out of the retail pipeline by now, but you should be aware of the possibility of receiving an inferior-sounding pressing.
There's a list of the 12 [post=5548189]Reprise Entertainer of the Century CDs[/post] in a very long and winding earlier thread. It's a ton of reading, but many questions about the sound quality of Sinatra Reprise CDs are answered in that thread and its successors: [thread=153560]Frank Sinatra on Reprise formerly deleted, being reissued by UMG (except N.America)[/thread] [thread=230573]Frank Sinatra on Reprise, formerly deleted, reissued by UMG (excpt. N.Am.) Pt.2[/thread] [thread=235076]Frank Sinatra: The Reprise Years (38-Disc Box Set from UMG)[/thread] [thread=197861]Sinatra Reprise reissues on Concord[/thread]
Another list of [post=3729097]Reprise EOTC CDs[/post], including catalog nos. and release dates, may be found in the same thread. (That post mentions the "link in my signature," which I no longer routinely display. It's shown here, below...) __________________ ~ Frank's Albums
Just to be clear, by "original" we're referring to the first UMG issue from 2010. That one duplicates the tracks from the 20-CD Reprise suitcase/box, including the long alternate take of "Hey Look, No Crying." (There was another Reprise CD issue of SHE SHOT ME DOWN in 1991, which preceded the suitcase. That one had the correct, shorter album take of "Hey Look, No Crying." It went out of print quickly, and was extremely expensive/difficult to obtain for years.) The second (replacement) issue by UMG is yet a third mastering. Based on a notation in the identical Japan (SHM-CD) release, I'm guessing that this one was 20-bit remastered by Keith Blake and produced by Gregg Geller circa 1998 (perhaps intended for release in the EOTC series), but it was never issued back in the day. In answer to the question: One thing that was obviously wrong with the first UMG issue was the inclusion of the longer take of "Hey Look, No Crying." It's okay to have an alternate recording of the song, but it's NOT what appeared on the original 1981 LP. Ignoring that difference, however, I feel that the second UMG issue has more presence and detail—both in Sinatra's vocal and in the instrumentation. Of course, the vocal is drenched in reverb (and some people dislike that), but I don't mind it at all on the revised CD. On the earlier CDs, Frank's voice sounds "muddier," as if additional processing (NR?) has been used. That's my opinion without any reference to the vinyl version. For another description (similar conclusion as to sonic improvement), see [post=5558442]this post[/post] by Martin. BTW, for those with the appropriate playback capability, one additional difference between the two UMG versions is that the second issue is HDCD-encoded. (See [post=5722461]this post[/post].)
I've read all the threads recommended by Bob F in post #89. What I'm shooting for is to figure out what CDs to acquire that are considered sonic upgrades of the 1960s Reprise material to complement the suitcase. After reading the threads for hours and hours, here's what I've come up with: EOTC FAS & ACJ EOTC Swing Along with Me EOTC Francis A. & Edward K. Concord September of My Years Concord Ring-a-Ding Ding! I'm also going to pick up the 1987 Sinatra at the Sands cause I currently only have the EOTC version and also A Man and His Music for the narration lacking in the suitcase. There were some differing opinions about whether the EOTC versions of the two Basie albums and Swingin' Brass sound better than, or the same as, the suitcase, so I might get those and listen for myself. Any other thoughts on those three? Two other questions: Is the mastering on the 4-CD 1990 Reprise Collection different than that in the suitcase? If I have the suitcase is there any reason to keep Reprise Collection other than for the packaging? The threads refer to the "1987" Sinatra at the Sands, but the closest I can find on Amazon is this, which says "1990": http://www.amazon.com/Sinatra-at-Sa...tmm_acd_title_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1343141007&sr=8-1 Any idea if this is the first version? The threads have also interested me in hunting for some mono Sinatra LPs, so thanks for that new obsession! Finally, big thanks to all of you on the forum who generously share your knowledge and information.
Thanks Bob, I was confused with which version you refereed to. I own the 1991 CD and unless a BIG improvement was made, I dont feel the need to hunt for another version.
Answering the last question first... Yes, that's the original (yes: 1987) SINATRA AT THE SANDS CD. The cover image states at the top left, "Two record set on one specially-priced disc," and it has the Reprise logo at the top right. Both of those are missing from the 1998 EOTC remastered edition. The clincher is the 21-track listing; the later CD had an extra bonus track. Note that Amazon's dates for early CDs are highly unreliable. (1990 is probably the date it was added to their database.) Also, beware of sellers who list products incorrectly. To be sure of what you're getting, you should ask for the identifying numbers. The CD you want has Reprise cat. no. 1019-2; UPC bar code is 0-7599-27037-2.
And remember the old debate re: sound of the EOTC vs. original release? I found the EOTC sound cut off at the "top". Compare the intro of "I've Got You Under My Skin"...there is a noticeable difference in crispness and clarity if you focus on Sonny Payne playing the cymbals. The original CD wins hands-down!
There was a time when you could have sold that 1991 Reprise CD for $100, and used the proceeds to purchase a dozen of the UMG reissues. It's probably not a BIG improvement, but I still find the sound of the '91 disc "cloudy" (for lack of a better word) when compared to the new, revised UMG version of SHE SHOT ME DOWN. At least you DO have the correct album take of "Hey Look, No Crying."
Yes, in some cases. You need listen no further than the first track in the set to hear this. ("Let's Fall in Love" from RING-A-DING DING! is a noticeably WORSE sounding "slap echo" mix than the one which appears in the suitcase.) No. Everything in THE REPRISE COLLECTION is repeated in the suitcase. When the 4-CD collection was released in 1990 (for Sinatra's 75th birthday), many of these tracks were new to CD (some were new to vinyl), but all were included in the 20-CD complete set five years later. As for mastering differences, I think there were only improvements in the later set.
