From Harbeth to Zu....anyone try?

I have a bunch of tube and SS amps.

I use my tube preamp and tube power amps on these. Noting that I like real sound, but not bright sound.

My room is about 450 sq. ft. The two tower speakers in the photo below, are the Zu Audio, Omen Definition's MK I. The Definition MK IV, run north of $12k/pr. The omen Definitions run less than 1/3rd the price of the Definition MK IV's. As I have bought mine used, they cost me about 20% of the price of the Definition MK IV's.

Until last week, I was using a amp/speaker selector switch to switch back and forth between the Omen Definition's (outside pair) and the Polk Audio LSiM707's, (the inside pair).the switch box is on top of the right 707.

The front speakers have always been powered by SS amplification. The power amp for the front is a SS Emotiva XP2-A, (Generation 1).

For years, I have listened to these speakers this way. Until last week!

I had been using a KT88 based PrimaLuna Prologue Five (36-WPC) to drive the large vintage Altec Lansing, A7, VOTT's (Voice of the Theater) speakers, never bright sounding SS amps. The tube amps are kept on a reinforced table, behind the TV.

A couple of months back, I acquired an EL34 based Audio Note Kit Amp, (35-WPC) and I am now using that power amp to power the A7's.

That freed up the PrimaLuna Prologue Five. I decided to see how the Zu's reacted to tubes. I really never bothered before, because Zu Audio makes the statement, the Zu's sound good with SS and tube amps.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

Hooking up the Omen Definition's to the KT88 based Five, turned them into whole new speakers.

On this, Benzion is entirely correct! If you listen to Zu's through decent tube amplification, they sound beautiful and completely natural, but... that is with the types of music that Benzion has mentioned.

They sound like insufferable crap on metal or any overly forward hard music, just as Benzion has mentioned.

My only comments with regard to SQ and Zu's are. They are dynamic, fast, forward and live sounding speakers. Some people like this, others not so much. By contrast, the Polk's are tame, respectable and well behaved, just the opposite of the Zu's.

Assuming that you like a live, forward sound, I can't imagine anyone who is listening to vocals, Jazz and acoustical instruments, not liking the SQ of the Zu's, driven by quality tube amps. I think they own a good position of the market in this department.

You certainly are not going to beat the Dirty Weekend's at $1k.

 

This is why I generally recommend separates - Purchasing a very good preamplifer like the Audio Note M1 (if on a budget) gives one the ability to have the tube preamp (this 80% of the amplifier sound) and you can then buy both a tube power amp AND a high power SS power amp. Then for speakers that require power or as you say a more dramatic sound you can tap into that.

I have been off work for a month due to an injury so I get much more listening time in. So yesterday I went through the rock recordings at high levels pushing the meters well to the right on my 12 watt amp - Still there is a limit and my speakers are sensitive enough that it's louder than I would ever need - BUT with under 92dB sensitive I would likely not be pleased by the result as the amp would huff an puff. So for something like an AC/DC (generally well recorded band) at high levels - a high power SS amp would be required (or I suppose a high power tube amp but I tend not to like high power tube amps).

And the best thing is SS power amps generally have very high depreciation because most people tend to run integrated amps. Pick up a Rotel RB1090 for a few hundred dollars (1Kw into 1 ohm - 1 ohm stable). It was only $2,000 new and Rotel sounds quite respectable if not moreso for SS.

I sort of want to get a SS power amp that will pull double duty for a surround sound set-up and be high enough quality for 2 channel playback. Fortunately SS tends to be cheapish second hand.

 

how much is the AN M1 linestage? With phono?

 

Well budget is a bit relative and my price sheet is 2 years old and the DAC 0.1x is 50% more that I quoted ARTK so Brexit and the dollar may affect some things but perhaps not all products. The prices fluctuate more because they don't stock product - they are built to order usually so prices are slave to the dollar and materials cost changes. Soundhounds in Victoria Canada usually had better prices than US dealers back int he day because they would buy up a bunch of products and store them.

The M1 LINE was $1,826 (2016)
The M1 PHONO was $2,241 (2016)

This is the preamp stage in the OTO and SORO I believe.

M2 LINE was $3,088 (2016)
M2 PHONO $3,985 (2016)
M2 PHONO BALANCED $6,226 (2016)

This is the preamp stage of the Meishu

M3 LINE $6,973
M3 PHONO $8,716
M3 PHONO BALANCED $10,840

Owners of AN generally like to see the prices continue to rise because it cushions them from losing any money when they sell the products. I sold my AN J/spe and TT2 for more than I paid and I could sell my OTO for more than I paid (around 20% more for all of them).

But the longer we wait the higher the price points. The DAC 0.1x on the price sheet is $1444 (2016) now it is $2200 apparently.

If you can solder there is the ANKits Phono preamplifier for $1825 ANK Audiokits - L2 Pre-Amplifier

But I know Peter hates ALPS pots so if you go the kit route pay a bit extra and get one of their upgraded potentiometers.

 

thanks for info. it has been frustrating to find a simple price list...

do you know what volume control comes stock with the M1/M2?

 

Pretty sure they use Noble but Noble went out of business and Audio Note began making their own pots.

As seen here the Audio Note 100kOhm volume

Audio Note

 

thanks for everyones imput and insight! I think Im going to grab some Zu DW Omens next time on sale! This would be for jazz and acoustic mostly on vinyl. My EAR 834P is such a nice smooth sounding phono pre which has nice tube bloom imo, paired with the Pilot tube amp. Worst case if i absolutely hate the Zu ( ie too fatiquing, too unnatural ) ill return or maybe sell here in the marketplace. Harbeths not going anywhere, and i completely agree with a previous comment, 100w is great, more power even better to wake Harbeth up. Should be interesting to try something different for a change since ive only listened to the harbeths for 3+ years now (bought new)

 

Just got an email from Zu, next DW sale goes live 6/12. And it's worth mentioning again, if you order them, call Zu and ask them to upgrade the high pass caps to ClarityCap for an extra $100 (you can also do this down the road and it's super easy to install them).

I've given my impressions of Omen DW elsewhere around these parts, but here are a couple quotes from recent published reviews that pretty well sum up my thoughts on the Dirty Weekends:

Zu Audio Omen Dirty Weekend speakers Review
[This reviewer uses Audio Note AN-K and Harbeth 30.1's as his reference speakers]

"...over several months of listening to the Omen Dirty Weekends I was never itching to swap them out of the system. I was aware of their shortcomings but never bothered by them, which is not the way it usually goes for me. I continued to enjoy my music with a delighted, often giddy enthusiasm that comes from fresh discovery. Honestly, I think I could live with these indefinitely and be very happy. I know better than to say such a thing, but it’s how I have felt."

Mini-Review: Zu Audio Dirty Weekend Omen Version II

"In fact, I’ve had a really hard time pulling myself away from them, or even wanting to hook up my “better” speakers. These Zu Dirty Weekenders are just so fun and engaging!"

 

and ordered

 

and ordered

 

Congrats. Excited to hear your thoughts.

 

first day with Zu DWs.....interesting is all I can say for now. Want to give a week or so to get a feel with different sources/styles...

 

I posted on the Dirty Weekend thread but thought I would copy this over...

here goes initial thoughts...

the Zu really exposes any flaws on a recording. For loud guitar rock that is compressed not good at all. But for acoustic and jazz they seem to be dynamic beyond anything Ive heard. several thoughts:
1. Source dependent, my Harbeths make everything sound at least ok to great! With Zu your recording better be good or your going to hear any flaws!
2. EQ capability on an amp is crucial... must have for these speakers
3. Turning the speakers away from listening spot (ie more straight forward helps cool off the treble) .....
4. Tubes seem to make sense with these speaker.. vintage

 

How might Led Zeppelin II sound through a pair of Dirty Weekends ...?

 

hmmm....”ouch” but this is only my opinion. I have very sensitive ears...

 

Two Words... Tube Amps...

 

I can tell you that Led Zeppelin II sounds absolutely wonderful on JBL. Maybe consider JBL if you like old rock? They also work great for Jazz!

 

You've tried LZ II via DW's ...?

It's the only album I own that distresses my Harbeth P3ESR's a bit ... which says a lot about that little wonder (supposedly only good for sparse, acoustic recordings and vocals).

 

Bruce, I have a pair on order and you are welcome to have a listen here in the south sound (Tacoma) when they show up.

 

I'm using a 14wpc Fisher X-100 tube amp with 88db-sensitive Spendor SP3/1R2's, and I get more than enough volume and weight from this pairing.

If you like the Harbeth sound, chances are good you will also like the Spendor sound.

 

nice! i also have a Fisher X-100 but it needs checked out on a bench before anything...

 

I highly recommend getting it ready for duty! I like it better than the 400 I used to have.

 

Agree, I like these small wattage small power tubes integrated's from the early 60's.

They are so nice sounding!

And, they pair well with vintage speakers from the same period.

 

And apparently they pair well with some British stand-mounts too.

 

I think that you have the perfect fit. You have a listening room that is relatively small.

So your speakers are a perfect fit for you room, size wise.

And, since you don't have the need to crank out a great bit of power, the X-100 is the perfect size amp for your speakers.

People who have large rooms and need more bass and dynamics, would need an amp that could push the speakers harder.

An exception to that would be having more efficient speakers.

Which is why I can drive the huge (by comparison) A7's with a 3.9-Watt amp.

Having the ability to be able to have speakers and an environment that allows one to use a beautiful sounding low wattage amp is the best.

People can keep their really huge speakers and the really huge SS amps that power them.

As for me and you, no thanks!