Full Automatic TurnTable - Best

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by allied333, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. allied333

    allied333 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    waterford, mi
    As odd as this is, I am a CD player guy & wife is all in for vinyl records. Putting together a system, she wants a fully automatic turntable. That is, holds records and will play more than one by stacking on center post.

    What is the best fully automatic TT I can buy?
     
  2. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Yowza. That's not particularly good for the records.
     
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  3. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    Thorens TDW-224 restored. But you won't like the price. Also cost around $700 new in 1964 (the most expensive turntable of the era) and basically a TD 124 which changes records. Better be prepared when you can find one to spend over several thousand dollars.
     
  4. allied333

    allied333 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    waterford, mi
    I pass on the Thorens 224. I heard it is very rare & frankly too much $ for me. So, second best?
     
  5. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    Technics SL 1650 (make sure it has all spindles) or the ELAC/Miracord 50H, 620U or 670U or the Dual 1019. And expect them to all need servicing unless done within the last 5 years. From there. the Dual 1218, 1219, and 1229 are also good but the same caveats apply. But changers are high maintenance, parts and technician labor cost good money. But any of the above in proper order are nice. Remember, most of the better changers are over 35-40 years old by now.
     
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  6. PhxJohn

    PhxJohn Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Dual 1229. Research it online. See fixmydual.com. They have a lot of good choices. My best sounding tables are 40-50 years old. They get more use than the new $2500 Rega. LOL. Of course, they both have a GE VR 1000 cartridge in them. I prefer it to my Ortofon Quintet Blue that is mounted on the Rega.
     
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  7. Helom

    Helom Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    Find a MCS 6700. Made by Technics. Can probably get one for <$120
     
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  8. PhxJohn

    PhxJohn Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I think it would be easier to find a Dual. LOL. I have four Garrard Lab 80's. Only one works. No wonder they are so cheap. They seem crude compared to Duals.
     
  9. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    Any turntable I have owned got more play than my Rega.
     
  10. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    They're not so much crude, as complicated to repair. I prefer the Dual 1009 and Dual 1019 of period changers. Those were the best of the era. Remember, the Garrard LAB 80 was the last of the complex, quirky old Garrard before Plessey cheapened and simplified the brand. And from the LAB 80 Mk II, Dual, ELAC/Miracord, and Perpetuum/Ebner led the changers in technology and in performance.
     
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  11. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    On Technics changers (I love them a lot) the other great Technics changer to own is the SL-1350 (and make sure it has all the spindles, they're hard to find and often expensive). It takes standard headshells like the SL-1650 does, performs well, and the best changer made short of the TDW-224 from Thorens. And is reliable and well built.
     
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  12. Nephrodoc

    Nephrodoc New Member

    I run across Technics auto and semi auto models at pawn shops at the time. I had a new Denon automatic that turned out to be a lemon, so I would stick with vintage technics.
     
  13. Helom

    Helom Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    I've run into a quite a few MCS automatics over the last few years. I bought one of them for $100 and later sold it for $140.
    It worked flawlessly.
     
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  14. PhxJohn

    PhxJohn Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I mentioned 'crude' due to the way the tonearm moves during the change/reject cycle....it sort of bangs against whatever controls the movements where Duals are so smooth. I got Lab 80's as a cheap way to get a medium mass tonearm. I realize that buying four of them was not so cheap but I want to get them restored some day and resell them. I think someone would appreciate a Lab 80 that performed as new. My Rega is a great turntable. And the Ortofon Quintet Blue is an excellent cartridge. I just am still amazed at how good the GE VR 1000 sounds. It makes me curious about the London cartridges. They are quite expensive though. Someday.
     
  15. PhxJohn

    PhxJohn Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    The Japanese and Germans made some fine products. I sure will miss the EVG styli from Japan.
     
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  16. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    That less than smooth motion of the tonearm reject/change cycle was sort of a holdover from the Garrard Laboratory A and A II mechanisms, the last pusher platform traditional Garrard changer which was an evolution and last refinement of the first Garrard 3 speed changer of the early 1950's. When this was first designed, 5 grams was very light tracking force for a changer of any kind. And records were mono.

    Remember than until 1964, record changers tracked at 4 grams at lightest in HiFi. And the lightest tracking options were integrated tonearms and for manual turntable use only. First redesign and clean sheet of paper from Garrard was their replacement of the RC 60 economy changer with the AutoSlim of 1962, designed in cooperation with Plessey of England (the company who helped save Garrard after the 1960 factory fire in Swindon, and milked the company dry later on), the Laboratory changers were concurrent then, and the LAB 80 of 1963.

    In 1964, revolution happened. This revolution was Shure's introduction of the M 44 line, the M 55E, and the V 15 and Dual's introduction of the 1009, the first light tracking, true HiFi changer. Which could use those cartridges, and could also cope with the Empire light trackers, and the ADC light trackers. These obsoleted GE and they left the business, some 4 years behind. GE's last niche was the VR II (the standard of AM and FM mono radio until Stanton's 500 A in 1964)
     
  17. Joe Laviguer

    Joe Laviguer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    If she wants vinyl sound without having to constantly flip vinyl, get her a hi-res digital player, portable, or the Sony thing?
     
  18. allied333

    allied333 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    waterford, mi
    Wife has a collection of records she wants to play. She has CDs too.
     
  19. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Tell your wife that a CD will sound better than any of the above mentioned. I had 3 Duals, one being a 1229. I used Empire or Otophone cartridges. I had no idea how good a record could sound until I bought my SOTA Sapphire.
     
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  20. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    Records are not best when stacked, every non TDW-224 changer is a compromise at best. Tracking force varies throughout a stack, and tracking angle is never ideal. And the reproduction of sound suffers to some degree. I am physically challenged, I mostly prefer and use manual turntables and or single play automatics or semi automatics. I am also the person who does the maintenance and repairs and I prefer simpler to keep up and lower maintenance. I chose my first good turntable when I kit built my first system, I chose the AR XA for that system when I was 9 years old. In today's market, budget between $100 and $200 every 5 years for an overhaul on most better changers. Unless you are skilled on servicing and overhauling a complex changer. And many have wear parts to also factor in replacing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  21. Joe Laviguer

    Joe Laviguer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    As someone else mentioned, stacking records like we did back in the day (before we knew better), is very bad for the vinyl. Not sure what else to say.
     
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  22. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    As an owner of two fully automatic, non-stacking turntables, I'll just say that you'll get over the non-stacking thing very quickly. Even for 7'' 45 rpm singles I'd rather have two turntables or two DJ decks and a mixer than a stacker. I would only get a stacker if you want to play thrift store singles you don't care about.
     
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  23. Joe Laviguer

    Joe Laviguer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Is there an emoji for "cringe"?
     
  24. Scott Davies

    Scott Davies Forum Resident

    Technics SL-3350, Technics SL-D5, MCS 6701. All are higher end stacker/changers.
     
  25. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    I've bought three Duals from Bill at fixmydual.com over the years and use all three, a 1019. 1229q, and 701. I enjoy all three but if I had to keep just one it would be the 701.
     

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