Gaucho 2003 SACD

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Josh Reznikov II, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. Josh Reznikov II

    Josh Reznikov II Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, Tx
    Hello. I have the 2003 SACD of Gaucho. No SACD capable player however. But, is the cd stereo layer the same mix as the sacd layer, just lower resolution? If not, it would be great if I could it off my SACD on my pc drive...
     
  2. c-eling

    c-eling Forum Resident

    Mix? Yes
    Mastering, it looks to be slightly more compressed than the SACD portion. Probably the same mastering or close to it.
     
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  3. Josh Reznikov II

    Josh Reznikov II Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, Tx
    Thanx for that. Maybe I just stick to the cd stereo layer for now until I can rip the SACD part (or find a rip online to save the hassle and time)
     
  4. Espen R

    Espen R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norway
    Same mix on both layers.

    Even the SACD layer is more than "a bit" compressed.
    The SHM-SACD is not.
    Album list - Dynamic Range Database
     
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  5. Jwest97

    Jwest97 Regional Director of the Couch and T.V.

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    I have this release. It sounds like the same master to me with the stereo mix, just as compressed. Still, it's worth listening to in DSD just to see how the player makes it sound. (Not that I'm one to believe that I could tell the difference between DSD and PCM.)
     
  6. c-eling

    c-eling Forum Resident

    I was going by the compression based on both stereo
    A mastering I don't recommend for stereo playback, buy this one for the uncompressed 5.1 if that's your thing.
    I was trying keep my opinion of it to myself as Josh may enjoy modern mastering.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
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  7. Josh Reznikov II

    Josh Reznikov II Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, Tx
    I have the MFSL, VDP-26, and the 32XD to compare. But I like the detail on the SACD mix a lot. It's just a bit loud.
     
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  8. Espen R

    Espen R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norway
    Yeah, the 2003 SACD sounds like it was sourced from the master tape, but a bit loud and boosted. But it has clarity and sound pretty clean. It is pretty good, IMO.
    The SHM-SACD is sourced from a japanese copy tape and not compressed. It sounds pretty good, but sound a bit "weak" or a bit "veiled", probably a tape issue.
     
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  9. Josh Reznikov II

    Josh Reznikov II Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, Tx
    The only way I could get a rip off the SACD layer was by torrenting the .iso (I don't have the equipment). But now, it's a hard choice between the VDP-26, 32XD and the SACD...
     
  10. Espen R

    Espen R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norway
    What differences du you hear between these? Maybe its hard for you to describe with words, but try...
     
  11. Josh Reznikov II

    Josh Reznikov II Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, Tx
    32XD seems thin compared to the VDP-26. The VDP-26 is easier on the ears too, vinyl-ish I guess. And the SACD, I love how real it sounds, just boomy and loud at the same time.
     
  12. bodhisattva

    bodhisattva Forum Resident

    The SACD stereo layer of the 2003 SACD is just an upsampled version of the CD layer (which I believe is just a remaster of Roger Nichols mid-80's tape transfer to digital) so there's no benefit to it at all, unless you feel DSD's ultrasonic noise adds some positive sonic colouration to the music.

    For my money, even though it's (presumably) from a 1st gen copy tape, the more recent stereo-only Japanese SACD is the best way to hear the stereo mix of this album. Full dynamic range and a tonality that sounds just like the old LP we all love.

    I did a couple of posts (#75 & #76) over at QuadraphonicQuad a couple of years ago dissecting the 2003 SACD/DVD-A (both stereo and 5.1 layers) if you want more technical info, including spectral analysis, etc.

    The 5.1 mix that's on the 2003 SACD on the other hand is a thing of beauty, possibly Elliot Scheiner's masterwork as a 5.1 remix engineer.
     
  13. Josh Reznikov II

    Josh Reznikov II Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, Tx
    Is there no cd layer on that Japan SHM-SACD?
     
  14. Espen R

    Espen R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norway
    Yeah, you could be right in both; that the source is the Nichols early 80,s transfers into 16/50kHz digital and that the stereo DSD section is upssnpled from 16/44.1 PCM.
    Nichols did some clean transfers of all the masters at that time.

    But you know the SHM-SACDs of «Coutdown» and «Pretzel», can you share some information on what tape sources was used? Or what you assume?
    Both sounds exellent, Imo.
     
  15. van1

    van1 Forum Resident

    I would definitely hold onto it as its getting very hard to find due to the sublime thing of beauty 5.1 mix
     
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  16. The mix on the SACD is the same mix that is on the MFSL and the 32XD.
     
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  17. No CD layers on SHM-SACDs. The Japanese prefer single-layer SACDs.
     
  18. Josh Reznikov II

    Josh Reznikov II Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, Tx
    Months ago I downloaded the DSD since I have no SACD ripping equipment :D
     
  19. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    So. ME USA
    I agree 100%! The 5.1 mix of Gaucho is awesome. I just wish the quad mixes of the early Steely Dan albums would be released. Come on Dutton Vocalion :winkgrin:!
     
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  20. JediJoker

    JediJoker Audio Engineer/Enthusiast

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Mitsubishi converter? Or was it mixed down to digital to begin with on a Mitsubishi recorder?
     
  21. Espen R

    Espen R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norway
    I don't know how much analog or digital the recording is, but I think mostly analog. Same for the mix.

    At a time every analog stereo master's was transferred to digital. They used a 50kHz machine from either 3M, Mitsubishi, Telefunken etc, with a built in AD converter, I think.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018

  22. And you have a DAC that decodes DSD but you do not have an SACD player?
     
  23. Josh Reznikov II

    Josh Reznikov II Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, Tx
    The DSD files are downloaded and converted to WAV with Foobar
     

  24. Too bad. The DSD is to die for.
     
  25. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Yes! Have it.
    Too bad The Beatles never got a taste of SACD, at least Abbey Road.
     

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