Gear placement, cable length, and balancing priorities

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Go Mifune, Nov 28, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Go Mifune

    Go Mifune Go speed racer, go! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    My new tube based system is all arriving soon and I'm faced with the dilemma of how to arrange things. My room limits some of my options because of layout and size. Speakers will be on either side of a television which has to live on a decommissioned fireplace with speakers on either side, so center placement of my gear won't be an option. Room size also limits how easily I can put larger pieces of furniture that might solve some of my issues.

    The gear I need to place includes: tube amp, tube preamp, tube phono stage, TT, DAC, mac mini. I use Blue Jeans Cables, so all decent quality but nothing fancy.

    The main challenges I'm seeing are:
    • How do I balance keeping cables short, keeping gear separate from each other and separating all of it from speakers whose sound can affect the gear? Which sacrifices are most acceptable?
    • Can my tube gear sit in a traditional vertical audio rack or will it be create too much heat in a stacked setting and therefore need to be on something where they can all sit on the top shelf of a wide, horizontal unit?
    • If I do go with a vertical rack, how much clearance do I need between my tubes and the next shelf up? It seems most of these racks are lacking enough space between shelves to give me the kind of clearance I would prefer.

    I know some of this gets into the never-ending world of audiophile arguments and no matter what I will be making sacrifices. Obviously some of the problems can be solved by ignoring others. I have traditionally kept everything on one vertical rack close to the side of the speakers. This doesn't separate gear from each other, doesn't allow for some separation from the speakers, keeps interconnect lengths down, and requires the least amount of floor space. Separating say my TT from my amps may help with isolation but requires bigger interconnect lengths and limits how far I can spread my gear from the speakers. I can possibly separate everything from the speakers and each other, but this will require very long cable lengths both in terms of interconnects and speakers. I also can't simply throw money at it. Custom furniture could help but I'm working with a tight budget and off the shelf solutions.

    Ideas welcome. Poll below with some basic options based on the attached sketched image. Note nothing is remotely to scale or even straight. Forgive a guy; drawing isn't my strong suit.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. vinylontubes

    vinylontubes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Katy, TX
    Could you possibly center the power amp between the speakers then run a longer interconnect to the pre-amp? Just a thought.
     
    Go Mifune likes this.
  3. Go Mifune

    Go Mifune Go speed racer, go! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    It is probably really hard for me for a variety of reasons. If it were really the best option, though, I do have a couple of ideas for how I might be able to pull this off. It would probably mean building a shelf for the TV to live on and having the amp live under that shelf.
     
  4. Meatface

    Meatface Forum Resident

    Given the choices above, I'd go with D or F.
    Try to get those speakers away from the tv if you can.
     
  5. Go Mifune

    Go Mifune Go speed racer, go! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    How far from the TV do you feel they best should be? The room is big enough that I hope to walk them out into the room a bit for critical listening, but there is also at least some wiggle room in how close I put them to the TV.

    At the risk of sounding a bit uneducated, what is the main concern with the proximity to the television when off? Is there any way to minimize the effect besides distance?
     
  6. merlperl

    merlperl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    [​IMG] Here’s what I did and I have some larger tube gear as you can see. Plenty of ventilation on all sides and the amp actually has more space above it than it appears here.

    no issues with overheating whatsoever.

    Now my wife is wanting to do something different to showcase the gear as she loves to have a pristine looking house. She wants the tt, amp and pre on one shelf. The other stuff hidden away somehow.
     
    Go Mifune likes this.
  7. Go Mifune

    Go Mifune Go speed racer, go! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Is that the Salamander rack? Is it fully adjustable shelf height wise? Are you happy with how stable it is? I've been thinking about purchasing one. We may have discussed it on another thread actually. It would certainly solve the shelf height issue I keep facing.
     
  8. PineBark

    PineBark formerly known as BackScratcher

    Location:
    Boston area
    Rack inside the decommissioned fireplace? (I'm serious.)
     
  9. merlperl

    merlperl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Yes it’s a salamander. The shelves are infinitely adjustable and that’s a great feature. Notice the bottom two shelves...there’s a Furman under the vt-80SE. And it’s been very stable as long as I keep the heavy stuff down low! I at one point had it strapped to the wall being in SoCal. I may put those back...
     
    Go Mifune likes this.
  10. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member


    I know people are setting up systems in home living environments so they're making lifestyle vs. sound compromises, so I'll just except that you're going to stick the speakers where your going to stick them.

    To your specific questions: "How do I balance keeping cables short, keeping gear separate from each other and separating all of it from speakers whose sound can affect the gear? Which sacrifices are most acceptable? "

    The answer really depends on the specifics of your gear.

    In general, I think it's better to get the equipment farther away from the speakers, especially equipment that's very sensitive to air and structure-borne vibration such as a turntable. On the average, except for the connection between a phono cart and phono stage -- where a very short connection in crucial -- and connections between highish output impedance tube amps and speakers, you can run 6, 10, 12, 18, 20 foot cables or more without a problem. Lengths that can cover most domestic situations are unlikely to cause issues if you use well shielded low cap interconnect cable, low resistance speaker cable, and take care with routing the signal wires away from sources of induced noise. HOWEVER, you say you're using a tube preamp and tube phono preamp -- a lot of times these things these days, especially the phono pre, can have relatively high output impedances (and certainly significantly higher than what you'd find in modern solid state gear). So, check the specs, you might want to keep the run at least from the phono pre to the pre short also. But in most cases you'll be able to run interconnects between your DAC and your preamp, and between your preamp and your amp, of whatever length you need to satisfy convenience and decor in a home living space, and probably between the phono pre and pre too if the output impedance isn't very high.

    "Can my tube gear sit in a traditional vertical audio rack or will it be create too much heat in a stacked setting and therefore need to be on something where they can all sit on the top shelf of a wide, horizontal unit?"

    I'd avoid sticking a tube amp on the bottom shelf of a rack, no matter how well ventilated on the sides, with the reality of heat rising and all, not to mention the pain it will be any and every time you want or need to change tubes. I'd put a tube amp on a top shelf or off somewhere on its own, well ventilated. ​
     
    Meatface and Go Mifune like this.
  11. Meatface

    Meatface Forum Resident

    I've never heard the Omegas before, but they seem to be known for great imaging. Generally, keeping some space from reflective surfaces helps that illusion along. I can't recommend specifics for your situation. It takes me quite a few days of tweaking placement whenever I change speakers to get tonal balance & imaging to what I like.
    Of course, Having your room look nice is important too.
    It's not important to me to separate turntables, preamps and amps all over the room. If there are any transformer noises picked up from the phono rig, it can usually be solved by swapping out cables or repositioning equipment within the shelving area. I definitely wouldn't want a long cable run from the turntable to phono stage. Your instinct to keep interconnects short can save you some money too.
    I keep any tube gear on top for the same reasons mentioned by chervokas.
    Have fun discovering what works best. So far, you equipment is nice enough to give you years of enjoyment.
     
    Go Mifune likes this.
  12. ayrehead

    ayrehead Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mid South
    Go Speed Racer. Go Speed Racer. Go Speed Racer go...
     
    Go Mifune likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine