Genesis: A Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering is a great double

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by marke, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. Drewbie

    Drewbie Active Member

    Will do. If it sticks then I'm sure ill pick up Wind at some point.
  2. fasto

    fasto Active Member

    Intersting discussion!
    Personally, I disagree. I always considered "WAW" the weak transitional album between "ATOTT" and "ATTWT".
    I've really tried to get into ""WAW" over the years, but every time I just think that the only memorably songs on there are "Blood on the Rooftops" and "Afterglow". I must have given it at least 30 tries, but I still can't get into it, whereas I really adore both the album proceeding it, and the album succeeding it!
  3. marke

    marke Forum Resident Thread Starter

    That's how I feel about Yes from the same period. I like Going for the One and Drama but I don't really like Tormato, the album in between them.
  4. Wally Swift

    Wally Swift Forum Resident

    Brooklyn New York
    I agree. I love both albums, Trick more so. I've always wondered what "And Then There Were Three" would have sounded like [and been called] had Steve not left. I like that album a lot also except for Follow You Follow me.
  5. stonedhenge

    stonedhenge Forum Resident

    Trick of the Tail will always have a special place in my heart, as not only is the music top notch, but I associate it with memories of a very special girlfriend who used to play it all the time, when I lived in England (way back in 1977). Whenever I hear "Ripples" in particular, it brings back memories of her and makes me very melancholic. Wind and Wuthering, on the other hand, I could never get into; I think "Your Own Special Way" is just soppy and the worst thing they'd done up until then. The only other post-Gabriel album that is not too commercial for my tastes is Three, but it's a big step down in quality from Trick. From the Gabriel years it's gotta be Selling England and Nursery Cryme for me. Lamb has some great moments, but it's a bit ponderous in my opinion.
  6. marke

    marke Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I like Foxtrot and Lamb from the Gabriel era. Lamb would have been a very strong single album but these progressive guys just don't know how to edit themselves. :D
  7. stonedhenge

    stonedhenge Forum Resident

  8. fasto

    fasto Active Member

    Quick side-note... I wonder if anyone ever noticed how "ATTWT" goes full circle musically... the opening chords [once the guitar starts at 0:28] of the opening track "Down and Out" are the same as the main chord progression of the chorus of the final song "Follow You, Follow Me".
    Not sure if it's intentional or not, but this thread got me listening to those albums again and I just noticed that...
    LivingForever likes this.
  9. marke

    marke Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Hey, you're right!
  10. rburly

    rburly Sitting quietly with Item 9

    Trick of the Tail was the first Genesis album I bought. Obviously I went back and bought Peter Gabriel era Genesis after that because the melodies and hooks of Trick were so amazing to me.

    Whenever I see that someone doesn't like what I like or vice versa, I always attribute it to personal preferences. I won't give examples, but there are bands that I enjoy that other people enjoy as well, but they may enjoy someone that I don't like, and again vice versa. There's nothing wrong with not enjoying what someone else enjoys, its just personal preferences that make it that way. If you don't enjoy And Then There Were Three, you don't like it. You may or may not at sometime in the future, but there's nothing wrong if you don't like it.
    Drewbie and marke like this.
  11. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    I like ATOAT, but W&W always seemed a much weaker disc to me.
  12. kwadguy

    kwadguy Forum Resident

    Cambridge, MA
    These are two good albums. I would say that Trick of the Tail is 2/3 outstanding and 1/3 mediocre, to be honest (you can keep Robbery and Los Endos), while Wind and Wuthering has fractionally less inferior material. But they are both superior albums.
  13. marke

    marke Forum Resident Thread Starter

    You're dead right- I don't necessarily like every album that a favorite band has put out. I like Pink Floyd for instance but I'm not a big fan of The Wall. To each his own.
    rburly likes this.
  14. John54

    John54 Forum Resident

    I like everything from From Genesis to Revelation to Wind and Wuthering a lot. I'd say Trespass is the weakest of the bunch, and it's not a weak album by any means.

    Entangled - Squonk - Mad Man Moon is just an amazing trio of songs, and Ripples and the title track A Trick of the Tail are the best things on side two. My biggest problem with the LP is that I have never liked the opening and closing tracks.

    Eleventh Earl of Mar is, I think, the best song on Wind and Wuthering, followed by All in a Mouse's Night and Your Own Special Way. This LP too drags a bit at the end, not unlike Selling England by the Pound ...
  15. rburly

    rburly Sitting quietly with Item 9

    Just a comment, as has been brought up earlier. Since the posting of this thread, I started with Trick and have been soldiering (but enjoying) the catalog post-LLDOB.
  16. marke

    marke Forum Resident Thread Starter

    A good way to spend the day (and night). :)
    rburly likes this.
  17. HiredGoon

    HiredGoon Forum Resident

    I loved Trick Of The Tail from the first listen, except for Squonk ... that big rawk riff is too lethargic for my taste. Robbery Assualt & Battery is a okay, but the rest of the tracks are sublime, especially the big 12-string & mellotron sound of Entangled.

    As for Wind & Wuthering ... I think it's mostly great, but the middle section of Your Own Special Way / Wot Gorilla / All In A Mouse's Night is skippable, IMHO.

    Karnak likes this.
  18. BrucePadgett

    BrucePadgett Forum Resident

    I had heard "Follow You Follow Me" on WNEW-FM back in NYC in the '70s, and then the entire album from which it came, "And Then There Were 3", while record shopping. I bought the LP on the spot, and duly impressed, got "Seconds Out" a week later. By the end of the month I had purchased the rest of the Genesis catalogue. Honestly I hadn't been so blown away by a group since the Beatles, and to this day I still feel the same. That having been said, here are my top 5 picks:

    1. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. An utter masterpiece, albeit a bit overlong. Peter Gabriel's swan song with the band, and rightly so as that configuration of the band could probably never top it.

    2. Trick of the Tail. Stellar writing and playing as Phil Collins becomes lead vocalist and blends perfectly into the sound. Not a surprise as had been doing backup singing all along.

    3. Wind and Wuthering. See #2.

    4. Abacab. Prodded by Collins (now also a successful solo artist), a stripped-down, propulsive sound emerges. The title track rocks and funks out at the same time, but another highlight is Tony Banks "Me and Sarah Jane", a very proggy nod to their older style. "Dodo/Lurker" perfectly fuses both styles.

    5. Seconds Out. The greatest live album ever.

    Honorable Mention:

    Duke. Great song suite, great standalones, unique production.

    IMHO the greatest band ever...after you know who.
    LivingForever and PROG U.K. like this.
  19. davenav

    davenav Forum Resident

    Brooklyn, USA
    I've loved these albums since the day they were released. The old Atlantic Trick of the Tail cd sounds good, but W&W has never been served well by the digital age -- vinyl all he way on that one.
  20. audiotom

    audiotom Ground Control to Major Tom

    New Orleans La USA
    I recall the anticipation on whether Genesis could survive without Gabriel

    Trick and WaW are bookends like rubber soul and revolver

    Prior to these albums the group shared songwriting 5 ways - as a collective.
    From Trick on the songs were credited individually.
    Tony dominated the songwriting leaving Steve out in the cold
    Steve took some of his songs for his first solo album (his mates played on it, except Tony due in part to the songwriting conflict)
    The band was bewildered when Steve left.
    Tony took his guitar in Second's Out and buried it low in the mix
    What could have been
    Has that been fixed in the latest release?

    Attwt has it's moments, but the lyrics are a step down
    As much as Your Own Special Way appeared the sell out
    It was really a catchy melody -a beautiful love song

    What was the real sellout was Misunderstanding
    It was all over by then

    I classify genesis not as pre and post PG but pre and post SH

    Steve seems to be the only member still consistently (at least in a timely manner, yes you Peter) putting out great music of a wide variety
    The new genesis revisited ii is great as well

    Such a shame Steve was crowed out, perhaps Genesis would have kept their progressive nature
    marke likes this.
  21. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    I agree that if I had to cut a track on "Trick", "Robbery..." would be the first to go (and NO, we don't need another "kill the album off one song at a time" poll, but thanks!). "Los Endos" on the other hand, I find as a perfect ending to the album, with it's dark and somewhat creepy synthesized choir that leads the listener into the darkness, but slowly that darkness breaks into the light near the end, when Phil slams those drums and everybody kicks the song into another stratosphere!
    NorthNY Mark likes this.
  22. Tristero

    Tristero A muted trumpeter swan

    I actually prefer "Robbery..." over the rather slight title track, though I the live version on Seconds Out is even better. I love the jazzy instrumental interlude towards the end. Of course, the saccharine "Your Own Special Way" has to be the weak link on Wind & Wuthering--I would have preferred Hackett's "Inside & Out" in its place--but you can't have everything.

    I agree that these albums make excellent bookends. If Trick of the Tail represents Spring/Summer, Wind & Wuthering represents Fall/Winter and I find the latter to be just as compelling. There's a somber, dreamy quality to it, best epitomized by the "Unquiet Slumber..." instrumental, that I find to be very evocative. These albums don't necessarily overshadow the Gabriel era for me--I'll always be drawn to PG's surreal charisma--but these albums (plus Seconds Out) stand on their own as a very rewarding phase of their career. Though I enjoy some of what came after, it was never quite the same for me after Hackett left.
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  23. chef0069

    chef0069 Forum Resident

    Very well said! I love Wind and Wuthering, and am a big Hackett fan. The band was never the same without Hackett, it affected them more, IMO , than Peter leaving.
    PhilBiker likes this.
  24. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Cypress, TX
    Great songs. For them to sell out you have to know what their intentions were, don't you? By all accounts "Follow You Follow Me" was an accident and was not taken seriously until the record company told them this was a hit. Until then it might have been left off the album. So they didn't write the song reaching for the charts.

    Not only that, but following that album Phil started writing songs on his own and I think he has a natural gift for melody. I don't think he tried hard to make songs catchy and accessible. I think it's just what came out of them. After all, once they got to Abacab and especially Self-titled they created music by jamming and improvising.
  25. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker member number 666

    Northern VA, USA
    The multichannel mix is pretty fantastic.

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