Genesis - early CD versions thread (Ver. 2)

Looks the same as the version on the DR Database listed as the following:
Label Atlantic
Catalog number 80116-2
Bar code 0 7567-80116-2
Country USA
Album DR of 14
DR16 01 Mama
DR17 02 That's All
DR14 03 Home By the Sea
DR14 04 Second Home By the Sea
DR14 05 Illegal Alien
DR15 06 Taking It All Too Hard
DR14 07 Just a Job to Do
DR13 08 Silver Rainbow
DR14 09 It's Gonna Get Better

The county is listed as "USA", but I can't know for sure if the one listed on the DR database is a US for US pressing or a Japan for US like mine. If this baby's limited, than I wish more current albums used this type of limiting!

The DR values listed for the Vertigo are crazy high- it says "pre-emphased" in the notes, not sure if this means that the pre-emphasis was decoded before reading into the DR Meter or not- I'm guessing not as the cranked high end would likely boost the DR values.

 

we have several second hand cd/ lp stores that have
lots of early unremastered cds , I found lots of early cds of Genesis ( V/C and Atco) , King Crimson . Yes , Van Der Graaf Generator , Tangerine Dream and early cds of Many other bands, a lot of people gave their older cds to those stores and bought remastered editions .
There is almost no Israeli cd editions of these titles .

 

I have those two editions , Nursery Cryme Atco and Nursery Cryme V/ C
the V/ C has more bass than the Atco and the Atco has more treble than the V/C .

 

I'm really on the fence about which version of ATTWT that I like better. The VC has better bass, but Phil's vocals sound very thin and hollow. The WG Target has better midrange and is a bit more balanced overall, but I'm noticing more sibilance on the vocals. I'll compare both to the DE when I get the chance.

 

I am trying to decide if this version is worth $8 that a local shop is selling it for. I have the blue swirl, the SACD, the target version and the made in Japan for US version. I guess I would need to grab it to compare. Note: I did not read all pages of this thread so, someone may have already compared them.

Edit: I deleted the picture by error, this was the Genesis - Genesis GEN1 disc.

 

These are my notes for S/T:

 

I'm sorry....what is this exactly?

 

Guess these are the full length versions(not remixes)for Mama and It's Gonna Get Better.

 

That's correct, @Marc 74. The extended cuts are both on the Mama EP. I used the Vertigo CD for the comparison. The Vertigo is apparently different from the Virgin CD.

 

The Virgin CD is much louder for one.

 

Both the blue swirl and the Target have pre-emphasis - how do they sound to you?

 

They sound a little loud and bright. I might pick up the GEN1 disc to compare. It's only $8 so not too expensive.

 

What kind of CD player are you using? It may not be de-emphasizing correctly.

 

Both are ripped via EAC to FLAC and played through Foobar. I grab the actual discs and throw them in the player later to see if they also sound a bit bright.

Edit: Just checked and you are right. I added a plug-in to take care of the de-emphasis. Sounds a ton better. The original discs sound so much better through my player. Ugh, looks like I need to set it manually.

 

So let me get this straight. The target sounds better played through Foobar with the plugin manually turned on?
Do you also mean the target sounds better through your cd player (not Foobar?)

I was wondering if the pre-emphasis flag on the target disc may have been put in the wrong place, which may cause a cd player to bypass de-emphasis. But sound fine if pre-emphasis is turned on manually (using Foobar.)

 

Many players simply do not handle de-emphasis properly, and this is likely due to manufacturers sourcing parts that were intended for other purposes (e.g., data drives). Forum member SamS and I get into the weeds of pre-emphasis here:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/pre-emphasis-and-oppo-blu-ray-players.244533/page-2

for those who are interested.

 

Thanks Black Elk. I'm already aware. But most players handle it correctly. I'm sure my Oppo 105 does - PE.
I'm now ripping the target and burning a copy with Toast using the "PE" option.

The Japan for US and target just sound awful. Maybe it wasn't a very good recording to begin with. Hard to imagine after Abacab and Duke being so great sounding.

Saw them on the "Mama" tour and everything sounded so wonderful. There were lights that looked like ghosts flying around during Home By The Sea.

 

SamS is a tester for Oppo, so you could ask him if he knows for sure.

 

How do I know if my CD players can handle PE? Both are Sonys; BDP-S390 and CDP-C301M.

 

Formally, you need to measure the output when playing back test discs with known encoded/non-encoded tracks. The frequency response in both cases should be identical. You can see this in JA's Stereophile measurements. In recent years he has measured many players which do not decode pre-emphasis properly, including some very expensive ones.

Here is an example of an expensive player that got it wrong (not the worst response I've seen):

http://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-p8i-sacd-player-measurements

I have never seen measurements of a Sony CD player (at any price level) that did not decode PE correctly, though I'm not sure that I recall seeing such measurements for a Blu-Ray player.

 

Which plugin did you use? If you use foo_demphasis, you can add a tag to the FLAC that the plugin will recognize and then automatically apply de-emphasis.

 

I have found one red-swirl Vertigo Genesis '83 disk where the PE tag was not properly set (in that it wasn't picked up by EAC when ripped). The Targets were correctly set (and recognized by EAC) at least.

 

If your CD player doesn't end up working with PE, you can always rip and apply DE to the FLAC file using SoX, and re-burn.

 

Thanks for the info. The flag was def. not set correctly.

 

wow amazing thread!
a beginer question (sorry if is a stupid question but...)

by example:
Foxtrot
[BE] - V/C Nimbus : 99.0% - 90.5% - 98.4% - 100.0% - 100.0% - 100.0%
Level-shifted copy of Version 1
[PaulT] - V/C 32VD-1027, Japan (Black Triangle) : 82.3% - 75.3% - 81.8% - 83.1% - 83.1% - 83.1%

"level-shifted" just means that is the same mastering but with a low volume, so the "level-shifted" in the example the Black Triangle is the same same thing BUT with low volume? so I just need up the volume of my system...?