Genesis - early CD versions thread (Ver. 2)

Your understanding is correct!

 

thank you!
and mmm why the engineers that release that japans decide down the volume? curious... but well maybe that is beyond the thread... (young audiophile here )
I like the japans black triangles for the artwork, really nice booklets but well Im more interesed on sound quality than fancy artworks.

 

We have no idea. Over many, many threads here on the Forum we have turned up such changes for a large number of titles (not just by Genesis). We often find a 0.2 dB difference between US (louder) and Canadian (quieter) pressings, for example. It makes no sense, and no one here (including people who worked in the industry when these discs were being made) can explain why it was done, how it was done, or on whose authority it was done.

 

This is a great thread. I've been listening to my newly acquired Genesis early pressings and digging them thanks to the information I've gotten from this thread. They sound great. I'd like to ask now, though, what is the best way to acquire their B-sides and non-album singles on CD? I'm pretty sure there are two collections of box-sets that contain them but one of them is remixed I've heard, and the other may not have them all or sound bad. I haven't read up much on it but what is the best way to go with getting these tracks?

 

I'm pretty sure the best places to get the B-sides and rare tracks would be the Archive sets. The first box (1967-1975) contains lots of rarities and a live performance of the Lamb album in its entirety, but beware that Gabriel re-recorded some of the vocals. IIRC, the second box (1976-1992) also contains edited versions of It's Yourself (due to the band's preference) and Submarine (damaged master tape). If you want 5 non-album tracks from the Duke/Abacab era, get the original US or WG Three Sides Live. I believe that it's also the only place you can get the original mix of Me and Virgil on CD. The remix boxes also contain most of the same non-album material on the bonus discs, but everyone knows about the craptastic sound that they offer.

 

Ah so the remix boxes are BOTH remixed AND poor sounding?

 

If you hate compression, limiting, and smiley-faced EQ, then avoid the 2007 remixes like the plague.

 

The problem with the archive sets is that they do have a bit of compression (IIRC) and more importantly, noise-reduction, like the DEs did (probably some smiley-face EQ too). So getting original single CDs from the 80s is still the best bet for sound quality.

 

I'm sure you will get lots of advice on this. So I will try to be objective and not too anal.

First, truly different songs (not remixes, edits, or live versions):

Early era (1967-1969):

• I believe the singles and b-sides are on most of the numerous CD releases here

Gabriel era (1970-1975):

• There were only two non-album tracks, Twilight Alehouse and Happy the Man. Both are on the Archive 1 box set from 1998, and in remixed version on the 1970-1975 Green box set bonus disc
• I believe at least the remixed Happy the Man has shown up a few other places, like the Turn it on the Hits--Tour edition CD, and the Starbucks complilation

Collins era (1976-1996)

• Most were on the Archive 2 box set from 2000. The exceptions were:
  • Match of the Day, from the Spot the Pigeon CD, which is available as a standalone CD, though rare
  • Me and Virgil, from the 3x3 EP (UK) and original Three Sides Live (US). The original Three Sides Live is available on CD, and not terribly difficult to find
  • I believe a few other songs had slightly different edits than the original
• Everything was released, including Match of the Day and Me and Virgil, remixed, on the 1976-1982 (Blue) or 1983-1998 (Red) box sets

Ray Wilson era (1996-1998)

I am not a fan of this era, though I am aware there were a number of b-sides, and many fans feel the b-sides were superior to the originals. I personally get confused with what was an official b-side, and what was unofficial but leaked.

• Most were on the 1983-1998 (red) box sets, but remixed
• otherwise you will have to track down the originals

 

Next, a few songs have single edits. Most of them are not super notable, and most are on the Turn it on Again--the Hits complication from 1999. But here are a few that stand out:

• There is a "Watcher of the Skies" edit on the firts (1998) Archive box set
• I believe there is a "I Know What I Like" single version, but can't recall exactly nor recall if it's on the HIts complication
• The Follow You Follow Me single version is a "radically different mix" that has not appeared on CD, though I believe is available on Ammp3
• Abacab has a much shorter single mix, without the instrumental section at the end, on the Hits complilation
• The single version of Tonight Tonight Tonight is much shorter,. I believe the version on the Hits complation was similar, but tnot exactly the same
• I think the single version of Jesus He Knows me is a slgiht remix
• Carpet Crawlers 1999 is a completely new recording (though each member was recoredd indificually and there are lots of additional musicians)

 

(sorry for the typos on the previous posting--the site is very slow. I will try to colrrect later)

"12 inch mixes"

• Invisible Touch, Tonight Tonight Tonight, Land of Confusion, and I Can't Dance are all on the 197Archive 2 set from 20000
• I believe there was a second remix of "I Can't Dance" that was on a few CD singles, but hasn't made any of the box sets
• There is a version of "IT's Gonna Get Better" from the self-titled 1983 album out there, but it's not on the bos sets
• I believe there is a slightly longer version of Mama out there, but I don't recall it being radically different

 

Live stuff...I know a lot of stuff started to turn up. In some cases, these have turned up on the live albums, compilation/box sets, and/or are off the official video releases. In some cases, it has been difficult to determine if it was a unique live recording or a repeat of something else. But here's a partial list:

• "Evil Jam" from 1975, which I believe turned up as "Waiting Room" on the first box set
• I believe there is a qunique version of "Turn it on Again" that appeared on a promo disc that may or may not be the same as the version on the video bonus on "Duke". Never released on CD, in any case
• "Firth of Fifth" from 1981 (essentially a Three Sides Live outtake) that hs showed up several places, including the Turn it on Again 1981-1983 Vertigo complication
• "That's All" from a King Biscui9t Flower Hour compation from 1983 or 1984
• 1986-7 tour stuff is tough. I believe most of this was from the officila video and/or showed up on "The Way We Walk" or the archive 1976-1992 set. I think maybe there's a qunique version of either That's All or In Too Deep that showed up somewhere...?
• Several songs from the Knebworth 1990 concert have been officially released. "Turn it On Again" is notable because it has Phil's band playing along
• A "rehearsal version" of "Land of Confusion" from 1992 (which I don't recall being much different from teh Way We Walk version, except less crowd noise)
• Accoustic versions of Turn it On Again, Follow You Follow Me, SDamning with the Moonlit Knight, and Lover's Leap ahfrom 1997 Calling All Stations album release parities, with Ray Wilson on vocals
• "Invisible Touch" from the Live Earth concern in 2007 , slightly notable for not having the "Tonight Tonight Tonight" segue that

 

Thank you for all of that information ProgDave! I will look out for the Archive box sets for non album A's and B's. I'm not too concerned about edited versions.

 

bcaulf: Good luck in your search. Just be aware that the criteria "available on CD," "original mix," and "good sound quality" are kinda mutually exclusive terms in the Genesis world.

 

Great resource: http://www.genesis-discography.org/

 

Example of one those original single CDs - better sound quality than the corresponding song remasters in the Archive collection:

Note that this CD does have pre-emphasis.

 

Did they start releasing cd singles during Invisible Touch or sooner?

 

I believe the first was during Invisible Touch. They released a Mama CD single in some regions, but I don't think that came out until later (some sources say 1988)???

 

Thanks correct - Spot the Pigeon was also released around '88 if I recall. All single/EP releases prior to Invisible Touch were on Vinyl.

 

I'm moving back to the debut for a moment since there hasn't been a lot of discussion on it. Here's a comparison between the DCC and the fairly recent Varese Sarabande (Varese Vintage) masterings:

After listening, guess which one I like better. Well, it's obviously going to be Steve's version! The Varese version is a tad on the bright side and the bass is a bit artificial sounding to me. Both masterings have similar dynamics and the same bonus tracks, so just get the version that you can find first. I would've been fine with the Varese, but I'm willing to part with it after winning a chance bid on the Steve's CD. This isn't an album I particularly care for, but at least I'm sticking with the one with our host's magic. I recall reading that he isn't proud of his mastering, so can anyone confirm this?

 

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/from-genesis-to-revelation.120838/#post-2737649

There we are; more to do with the source tapes.

 

That's odd, your graph shows that the DCC has more energy from about 5 kHz up. In contrast, the Varese has considerably more bass.

 

The Varese CD of the debut album is automatically disqualified for me because it has that crossfade between "In the Wilderness" and the instrumental that precedes "The Conqueror" (same as the first CD issue on London).

 

True, but the DCC still sounds more natural to me.

 

I've got the Transluxe "FGTR". Is there anything unique about this mastering? Sounds decent to me.