Genesis - Seconds Out question

Count me as another big fan of this album. I think Phil hit it out of the park with his takes on Supper's Ready, Music Box, and especially Firth of Fifth. Plus you still have Hackett's guitar work. Just great stuff.
I think Afterglow on 3 Sides Live is better, but other than that, one of my favorite live albums from any artist.

 

This album is special in that it captures a transition period in Genesis' career: Gabriel was gone but Steve Hackett was still in the band and most of their set list was Gabriel-era material. They still retained their progressive feel, so to speak. Phil does a fine job singing Gabriel's songs. I saw them live here in Porto Alegre in 1977 and I was impressed. As for "Firth of Fifth", I remember they announced the song and I told a friend who was with me: "I know this song, it starts with a piano solo." Much to my embarrassment, they skipped the intro and went straight into the heavier part of the song.They also sang "Inside and Out", which Phil announced in Portuguese as "a new song" (I think the "Spot the Pigeon" EP hadn't been released yet.) I was lucky to have bought a ticket for the first night. Those who went on the second night saw less than half of the show. Michael Rutherford felt sick, so they announced a break but never came back. The audience took it out on the poor roadies who started dismantling the stage.

 

I think this era Genesis was just so special! You could almost feel the band & the fans pulling together, willing them to succeed...and they did on all levels! Bruford as a temporary drummer was amazing. (Not to slight Chester Thompson, who is amazing as well!) I love the music on Trick of the Tail and (especially) Wind and Wuthering so very much (though the sound on the original Lp's is kind of dead...never did much like Hentschel). When Hackett left, Genesis, to me, was dead. I was so very dissapointed in the 2nd Genesis box set that had very little of the Hackett Genesis period. Seems they preferred to emphasize the later period. I won't buy it!

But on topic, Seconds Out is a very worthy document of a band re-defining themselves. I find it very different from the Genesis Live period group, and comparisons strike me as an "apples and oranges" type. The only drawback of having Phil out front was that we lost those lovely background vocals he provided with Gabriel...and of course his drumming style was missed despite his capable replacements.

 

Fantastic album which marks the band's last release before the departure of the (imo) under-appreciated Steve Hackett. The concert(s) were recorded very well and the sonic reproduction quality is extremely high. I have to agree with another poster about the version of "The Musical Box" here. That has to be one of the most powerful 3 minutes of music I have ever heard. Perfection.

 

I just wish there was more material from Wind & Wuthering on it...

 

In a recent comparison, I found the original Atlantic to be better than the Defitive Edition Remaster, though not by a wide margin. The DE was EQd slightly but not much and it still sounded excellent. I just prefer the flat transfer on this one and, IMO, Seconds Out always sounded incredible and needs zero EQ.

 

I'm probably alone on this, but I feel Phil sounds a little bland and tentative singing the early Genesis material (and the songs on Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering). Like him or not, I think he didn't really come into focus as a singer until he started having more of a say in the writing (around the time of Duke). It's clear he's more comfortable singing his own melodies than singing Banks and Rutherford's material. I think his vocals on "Duke" and "Abacab" are much superior to what he did early on.

 

What a surprise!

 

My recent conclusion is ultimate: ALL Genesis remasters are to be avoided. Period. Even the best of them like Seconds Out. Even such flawed reissues like Van Der Graaf ones (with all the numerous drawbacks) don't sound sterile - Genesis remasters do. That reduces my enjoyment of music to the minimum. All you have to do is choose among numerous early pressings. Simple as that!

 

PG is no Phil either, Phil is one of the finest fusion drummers England has produced, his drum duets with Chester on this album are another highlight. (He has always maintained he is a drummer first and foremost, he just has an ability to write some good songs that millions of people latch on to.)

 

I think Phil did an amazing job on Peter's songs and sometimes did 'em better And Seconds Out IMHO blows away Genesis Live on every level. Absolutely, completely.

 

MCA - you can get it cheap on Amazon.com, best artwork too.

 

I would just go the other way. To me Phil's voice never sounded better than in the 'trick' and 'wind' and of course 'seconds out' era. Very distinguished and almost feminine at times.
I never much appreciated his casual attempts to use his "soul voice" on later Genesis recordings.
I mean it's ok for his solo-albums but I liked his early Genesis voice much better.

Achim

 

I LOVE Phil's mid-late 70's vocals!

 

I agree...

I think the '76 band was the best. Trick and Wind were easily the best albums of Genesis career IMO. The Gabriel years have a certain charm and are great and I don't mean to marginalize them. I just feel they really hit their stride in the performance/songwriting/recording realm after PG left. Let's face it, there's a lot of talk about the Gabriel/Collins argument but any real Genesis fan knows the argument wouldn't exist without Tony Banks (the real sound and writer of Genesis). Visually is one thing, but musically, Genesi lost nothing when PG quit.

 

Gabriel was the heart and soul of Genesis. A band is more than just the notes they write and play, it's the personality of the band members and Gabriel's lyrics, humor, and sense of style infused the band with a unique personality that was gone from the group when he left.

 

Yet the first album they recorded without him totally blew away any PG era LP.

 

Definitely. As much as I love Trick and Wind, by then the band had lost that eccentric mystique and an almost otherworldly uniqueness it had with Gabriel's presence. Where they suffered the most, IMHO, was in the lyric department. Not that all the post-Gabriel lyrics were bad. But they seemed to lack the creativity of Gabriel's innovative ideas.

 

Post-Gabriel lyrics are fine. Trick of the Tail is a great album.

But when you factor in personality and fun and excitement and originality, none of that stuff can even hold a candle to Foxtrot.

Collins singing Supper's Ready is a joke. The piece is as much a showcase for Gabriel's wildest muse as much as anything more musical and it loses everything when Collins sings it. This isn't a shot at Collins- would be true no matter who sang it.

Genesis' image and themes are fantastical and silly and weird- that's what made them one of those love 'em or hate 'em bands.

It would be like Queen without Freddie Mercury... heh...

 

What have you been smoking?

 

It's widely believed that Gabriel wrote all the band's lyrics when he was in it but that isn't actually true. For example, the lyrics to "Firth of Fifth," "Watcher of the Skies" and "Cinema Show" were written by Banks and Rutherford.

 

Contrary to popular opinion...

PG wasn't the primary lyricist in Genesis. He was "one" of the lyricists. The only time he insisted on writing all the lyrics was for The Lamb. As it turned out, he was unable to hold up his end of the bargain and Tony and Mike wrote what Peter couldn't finish.

Also, Genesis had plenty of humor after PG left. Phil always has a sense of humor that he kept alive on stage and on record. True, they lost PG's mystique. However, mystique wasn't going to take them to the next level. I'm not a big fan of PG or PC solo careers but what each did in Genesis was great.

PG left because it was time. He was ready and they were ready. Same with Hackett. I think their track record justifies that. They never tried to compensate for a departed member or replace that person with a soundalike. As much as I love The Lamb, I wouldn't have wanted The Lamb (part 2). Nor would I have wanted Mad Man Moon with the lyrics to Moribun the Burgermeister.

 

Well I didn't see PG was the primary lyricist or anything like that, but he did write lyrics.

Gabriel is also responsible for some of the things in Genesis I don't like- Lamb, for instance, is one of those double albums that would have been better edited to one LP, and the little dramatic touches of in Epping Forest are too much for me but fans love that stuff.

And I don't know if "they were ready" for him to leave. From what I recall from documentaries and interviews, they were not happy at all about his departure.

 

Yeah...I've heard the same thing said about the White Album.

 

PC = prettier voice, PG = better voice, especially on the old stuff.