Hadn't heard about those Jon Silver demos (including an early version of "Dusk"), or had forgotten if I ever knew. I suppose the tape is lost, right ?
I'm a little late here.... Fan of Genesis since 1976. First song I heard was A Trick of the Tail on WBBM-FM in Chicago. Loved the song, borrowed the album from a friend. Didn't know what to make of it at first, but something about it made me want to listen again. And again. And again. Eventually fell in love with it. Now, I have everything they've ever released commercially and some that they didn't. Own most of the solo stuff....all but a few Phil Collins and Mike + the Mechanics. I'm pretty sure I have everything from Hackett, Phillips, Gabriel and Banks. I think the Hackett years are by far their best, but like all their stuff. As far as FGTR, it's an album that I've always loved. It's far different from anything else they've ever done, but I feel there are some beautiful melodies throughout. Sure, the rhythm section is kinda weak and the strings/horns just get in the way. But, there's a naivete, an innocence on the record that I find charming.
God Genesis just gets better the more I listen and read through this thread. But Id like to know, why dont I get notifications about new posts on this thread? I keep missing pages upon pages that I have to catch up on.
idk mate .... maybe manually put it in watched threads? That happens to me sometimes too. All I can say is I will probably post something at least once a day .... and this is by far the most participated in thread that I have ever put up. So there is normally something new here every few hours or so. And thanks for participating folks, it makes it much more interesting. I can waffle on to myself anyhow, but I like reading the perspectives and information from folks much more knowledgeable than I.
Ah the box sets. Released at a time in my life when music took a bit of a back set in lieu of other endeavors, though I had a peripheral knowledge of their existence. And my thought process was - I owned all their albums already, why would I need those? While I kind of regret that, I'm also ok with it. I missed out on some unique stuff but I've never been a completionist anyway. When I listen to Genesis, I listen to the albums of my youth, so its all good. And there are ways of listening to that stuff elsewhere. But the sets are beyond my means at this point.
yea, it's all about the songs to me. I have never been one to hunt down the 1973 blue swirl, with a curl of icecream German pressing (with no insult directed at those who do) I had a ratty old vinyl of nursery cryme, and a couple of cd's and I loved them all, but when the boxes came out I was immersed in the idea of 5.1 and I finally (and quite slowly I must say) bought them. The timing was good for me.
My Genesis albums (or most artists I buy regularly, really) are all over the place - german, UK, dutch, austrian... as long as the music remains so beautiful and the particular copy isn't trashed, I'm more than happy with that. It's a rare occasion that I'll hunt down multiple versions of the same album. If I can play the format, the first best copy of an album goes home with me
... since folks has started talking about sound, I must say that to me those boxes are amongst the worst I've ever encountered - the music is almost completely ruined.
The only albums where copies seem necessary are in the case of Zappa (for example) where the earlier cd's he fiddled with them (before I knew about it) and so I feel a need to get the 2012's because they are the originals mixes. But this year has beaten the crap out of my bank account, so it won't be for a while lol .... idk who didn't buy cd's this year, but it certainly wasn't me
The remix boxes? Can only comment on the standalone CDs of Lamb and Duke, both are terrible imo. BUT... someone has advised me on getting the 5.1 of Lamb which is supposed to sound spectacular.
Yes, the remixes - they're compressed to death and tweaked with so I get a headache after a couple of seconds. A total disaster, if you ask me.
I have heard that, but they work for me ... my ears aren't what they once were and I was always a headphones listener, but I can't do headphones anymore, so the surround is the perfect substitute Sadly most stuff reissued/ remastered in the new millennium seems to have been below par in a lot of ways
My ears would ring every time I would listen to Duke. Hence, I gave the thing away heavy-hearted - gotta get myself an early copy some day.
Mark mentioned the sourround mixes though. Those AFAIK are ok. It's the stereo mixes who, revisionism aside, are mastered criminally. (Though the live ones are sort of fine)
cool. all i had listened to up until doing this thread were the surrounds ... the cd's have been getting a run in the car for mental refreshment.
I've had a very hard time finding a decent copy of Duke on vinyl; went through three used copies that were supposed to be "NM" and they were just noisy in various ways. Am waiting for a copy of the remix/remaster; I actually think the remixes were ok for WW, ATTWT, and Duke (the one that's really bad, in stereo anyway, is Trick of the Tail). Note I'm only talking about vinyl here though.
Trespass Studio album by Genesis Released 23 October 1970 Recorded June–July 1970 Studio Trident Studios (London, England) Length 42:56 Label Charisma Producer John Anthony Singles from Trespass "The Knife" Released: May 1971 Trespass is the second studio album from the English rock band Genesis. It was released in October 1970 on Charisma Records and is their last album with guitarist Anthony Phillips, and their only one with drummer John Mayhew. Genesis turned professional in autumn 1969, and began to rehearse intensely and play live shows. After several months of touring, including a residency at Ronnie Scott's, a club in the heart of Soho, London, they secured a recording contract with Charisma Records and entered Trident Studios in London in July 1970 to record Trespass. The music marked a departure from more pop-oriented songs as displayed on their first album From Genesis to Revelation, towards folk-flavoured progressive rock. This ranged from light acoustic pieces with multiple twelve-string guitars to the heavier live favourite "The Knife". The cover was the first of several to be designed by Paul Whitehead, featuring a knife slashed across the cover. Trespass was not a major success upon release; it failed to chart in the UK and the US and it received some mixed reviews from critics, but it was commercially successful in Belgium, which helped sustain the band's career. A reissue briefly charted the UK top 100 in 1984. In September, Genesis played their first live shows as a professional band, touring the local club and university circuit, with new drummer John Mayhew.[3] Mayhew was the oldest and most experienced musician, and came from a different background than the rest of the band. Phillips recalled that despite their efforts in making him feel comfortable, the drummer was unsure of his playing.[4] In early 1970, they secured a six-week residency at Ronnie Scott's jazz club in Soho, London, during which they were spotted by Charisma Records producer John Anthony, who persuaded label boss Tony Stratton-Smith to sign them.[5] The group wanted to branch out from their earlier pop-oriented style and write and perform songs that were unlike any other band at the time.[6] Rutherford later said that gigging was "tough, but a good way of getting the music into shape".[7] Two songs that made it to the next album, "Looking for Someone" and "Stagnation" were recorded for a BBC session in February 1970.[8] After several months of subsequent gigs, Genesis had enough material written and in June, retreated to Trident Studios in London to record a new album. Anthony joined them as their producer and recording engineer, and all the songs were recorded onto 16-track tape.[6] Phillips remembered that recording was only "slightly more sophisticated" than From Genesis to Revelation, and thought Anthony disliked having someone "drop in" their individual parts. He remembered a session whereby Rutherford had to listen through several minutes of the track before putting down a guitar part, by which time he had become too nervous and played it incorrectly.[9] The group had enough material to record two albums, but felt some songs were not strong enough and instead selected the strongest material for Trespass.[6][10] Recording took up most of the month, trying various ideas and re-arranging songs, to the extent that Charisma thought they had taken up residence in the studio.[11] They worked well with Anthony, and later recalled that his contributions to recording were important and helped shape the album.[12] In the summer of 1970, shortly after the recording Genesis' second album, Trespass, John Mayhew and Anthony Phillips quit the band. Phillips, suffering from intense stage fright exacerbated by health issues, soon announced his departure – a decision that left the band scrambling. “We went back on the road and I just couldn’t do it," the guitarist told The Telegraph in 2014. "I had to tell Mike. It was difficult, but I knew I was going to hold them back.” Once again, the band sought to fill their ever-vacant drummer's chair and add a new guitarist. A flurry of auditions uncovered child actor and drummer Phil Collins, who joined the group in August 1970. By the autumn of 1970, the Trespass album was released and, by the year's end, Genesis met their new guitarist, Steve Hackett. "From the beginning, we'd set out as songwriters," singer Peter Gabriel reflected in the album's reissue interview series. "And we were quite happy to be writing what were effectively pop songs. But I think there was always inside of us a yearning to explore, to push the boundaries and to mix styles. And as we started to get a little more adventurous, it got too out of mainstream, left-field for Jonathan and for the publisher we were working with." "The folk sound was definitely from Ant and Mike and this 12-string combination," Gabriel noted. "I think that was really quite innovative. And I loved it and tried to encourage it from my point of view." "If you look at, say, Crosby, Stills, Nash, & Young, 10CC, other bands which are songwriter-based, rather than musician-based, I think you do see long life spans," Gabriel said. "It's a different sensibility. Most bands begin playing together and then find writing, whereas we wanted to write and we found playing." The songs on the album originated from one or two members bringing along ideas to develop, or the group working out an arrangement as a whole. Banks later said that "we had played live quite a bit and every song on the album had been performed on stage. We had a selection of at least twice as many songs as appeared on the album, and the versions changed rapidly."[6] Rutherford complained that the songs had already been composed and arranged in advance, and there was little opportunity to change their sound, arrangement or direction in the studio.[13] The band drew from Gabriel's soulinfluences, along with classical, pop and folk music, and made regular use of Phillips and Rutherford's twelve-string guitar playing.[2] Gabriel was particularly fond of the combined twelve-string guitars and thought they gave the group a more unique and innovative sound.[14] The group's songwriting during this period often originated in pairs, with Phillips and Rutherford, and Banks and Gabriel, developing songs separately and presenting them to the group for further development.[15] The album opens with "Looking For Someone", beginning with Gabriel's vocal accompanied only by an organ, later described as being "idiosyncratic enough to set them apart from the herd within seconds".[16] He came up with the song which was then extended and developed by the group, starting with soul influences which move towards folk as it progresses.[17] The coda at the end of the song was written by the group as a whole.[18] Paul Stump wrote in 1997 that there is "the barefaced presence of a riff" from "I Am the Walrus" by The Beatles in the song.[19] "White Mountain" and "Dusk" had been worked out by Banks and Rutherford before deciding to record the album. The whole group worked on the music for "Stagnation", originally called "Movement", that Gabriel added lyrics to.[20] "Visions of Angels" was recorded for the previous album From Genesis to Revelation, but not used as the band did not think any takes of it were good enough, so it was re-recorded for Trespass.[15] It originated from 1968 a piano piece by Phillips at a time when his piano technique was limited, but could produce a "plodding" style similar to songs by The Beach Boysand The Beatles.[21] It has a more straightforward verse/chorus structure than some of the other songs.[22][23] "Stagnation" and "Dusk" showed Phillips and Rutherford's combined twelve-string sound, along with Banks taking a lead on piano, organ and Mellotron. This subsequently became a trademark of early Genesis.[24] Rutherford later recalled there were around ten acoustic guitars on part of "Stagnation", but they cancelled each other out in the final mix.[25] Gabriel described the track as a "journey song" with its lack of a more typical verse/chorus structure and the variety of mood changes it presents.[26] At one point during its development the song was around 13 minutes long before sections were removed or altered, but the introduction remained unchanged.[27] "The Knife" was written by Gabriel and Banks. It was originally titled "The Nice" as a tribute to The Nice, and the organ on the track was composed to resemble the playing of Nice keyboardist Keith Emerson.[18] As fans of the group Genesis were inspired to put together a heavier rock song which Gabriel said was "something more dangerous" compared to their delicate acoustic numbers. He added: "It was the first peak of a darker energy that we discovered".[28] It lasted up to 19 minutes in concert, but was reduced to 8 for the album.[29] Gabriel wrote the lyrics as a parody of a protest song.[24] Phillips later recalled that songs "Everywhere is Here", "Grandma", "Little Leaf", "Going out to Get You", "Shepherd", "Moss", "Let Us Now Make Love" and "Pacidy" were ones that were not developed further in the studio.[30] Banks said that "Going out to Get You" was too long to fit on the album as well as "The Knife", and the latter song had to have a portion of it cut out to fit on the LP.[6] In the liner notes to the Genesis box set Genesis Archive 1967–75, Banks claims "Let Us Now Make Love", one of Phillips's songs, was not recorded for the album because the group thought it had the potential of a single, but following the guitarist's sudden departure following the album's completion, it was never recorded in the studio. A live version was released on the box set, performed in February 1970.[34] At the same time, the group decided to replace Mayhew with a more suitable drummer. He was older than the rest of the band and considered an outsider, not contributing much to writing and lacking confidence.[35] An urgent replacement was required to fulfil live dates to promote Trespass. Phil Collins auditioned and joined in August, and the album was released in October.[36][37] The group could not find a suitable replacement for Phillips, so they resumed gigging as a four-piece.[38] In late 1970, they appeared on the television show Disco 2 to promote the album with Phillips' replacement, Mick Barnard. The group mimed with Gabriel singing live, who recalled the performance was "disastrous".[12] The album cover was painted by Paul Whitehead, who also did the covers for the band's next two albums.[39] The cover showed two people looking out of a window at mountains, which represented the pastoral themes of some of the songs.[40] Whitehead had finished the cover and then the band added "The Knife" to the running order. Feeling that the cover no longer fit the mood of the album, they asked Whitehead to redo it. When Whitehead was reluctant to do so, the band members inspired him to slash the canvas with an actual knife.[39] Trespass sold 6,000 copies on its original release and helped the band build up a live following.[6] "The Knife" was released as a single in January 1971.[51]The album charted at No. 1 in Belgium, which led to the band's first overseas concerts there in January 1972.[52] The album had a mixed reception by the music press at the time of its release. Jerry Gilbert, writing in Sounds, gave a positive review and singled out "Visions of Angels" and "White Mountain"". A review in Melody Maker said the album was "tasteful, subtle and refined".[38] Rolling Stone printed an extremely brief but unambiguously negative review of the 1974 reissue, saying "It's spotty, poorly defined, at times innately boring, and should be avoided by all but the most rabid Genesis fans."[49] AllMusic's later retrospective review was only slightly more forgiving, summarising that the album "is more interesting for what it points toward than what it actually does". They also commented that the guitars are so low in the mix that they are almost inaudible, leaving Banks's keyboard instruments to prominence. They considered this troublesome because Banks having a noticeable role "isn't the Genesis that everyone came to know".[48] Following the band's growth in popularity in the 1980s, Trespass reached its peak of No. 98 in the UK for one week in 1984.[41] Genesis Peter Gabriel – lead vocals, flute, accordion, tambourine, bass drum Anthony Phillips – acoustic 12-string guitar, lead electric guitar, dulcimer, vocals Anthony Banks – organ, piano, Mellotron, acoustic 12-string guitar, vocals Michael Rutherford – acoustic 12-string guitar, electric bass guitar, nylon guitar, cello, vocals John Mayhew – drums, percussion, vocals Production John Anthony – producer Robin Geoffrey Cable – engineer Paul Whitehead – layout Nick Davis – mixing (2008 release) Tony Cousins – mastering (2008 release) All songs written by Tony Banks, Peter Gabriel, Anthony Phillips, and Mike Rutherford. Side one 1. "Looking for Someone" 7:06 2. "White Mountain" 6:45 3. "Visions of Angels" 6:51 Side two 1. "Stagnation" 8:45 2. "Dusk" 4:15 3. "The Knife" 8:55 ------------------------------- So the band managed to reinvent themselves here, and also find a producer that was musically sympathetic to the band, rather than wanting to override their work with additions. This album is certainly a step up and stylistically miles away from the debut album. The epic mindset that the band would keep in place for years to come has its roots in this album, and although much less polished in form than what was to come the album still stands as a pretty strong statement of intent. As a whole the album works well. There are a couple of clunky parts, but these guys were just leaving their teens and stepping boldly into something that nobody else was really doing. Sure there were progressive bands around the place, but Genesis really stand quite apart from them musically and stylistically. I find it quite odd when folks speak of "Prog" and start putting Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Emerson Lake and Palmer and Jethro Tull all at the same table .... I really like the majority of what all those bands did, but they are such very different types of bands. They all have such a unique sound of their own that being lumped stylistically in the same basket is just absurd to me. Anyhow, this album was a very strong release, that again didn't do much in terms of sales, but it got the name out and there was a underswell that started, that was enough to keep things rolling. It's nice to be artistic and creative, but it's also nice to be able to eat regularly (although these were some upper class English boys, I'm not sure how much support they would have gotten from disapproving parents, or how much they would have asked for. I can see it now "Mum we need some money", "Go back to college and get a degree and a real job!") So for now the band was still a going concern and the trajectory was up, even if somewhat slowly. We will get into all the songs, but for now ... What are your feelings toward this album? When did you first discover it? How frequently does it get a spin on your turntable or disc player ... or heaven forbid ... your streaming cloud?(just joking, lets not go there) Give us the lowdown on Trespass folks. Cheers, Mark
Trespass: I first heard this record after already knowing all the subsequent Gabriel records and a couple other with Phil, and it was a grower, but now I think it’s a really strong effort, especially The Knife Which is one of my favorite Genesis tunes. It’s not my go to Genesis record but it’s one I don’t mind spinning once in a while. Also, that cover with the sniper shot is absolutely badass, possibly my favorite album cover of theirs.
Trespass was the first or second Genesis album I ever owned. Woolworth $2.99 cassette tape. Shrouded in mystery and tape hiss. That ending of White Mountain still brings me chills. A great album.
Ahh woolworths the record store of my youth. So many of my first pieces of vinyl came from my local woolies.
Ah, Trespass. Now this is starting to sound like the Genesis we all know and love. In fact its the precursor to my favorite Genesis album of all time. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. This album was crafted, honed, and perfected on the road. So well rehearsed were the tracks, that the expensive studio time ended up not being a concern as they laid down the tracks rather quickly once in the studio. They had a lot of material, but in the course of playing their live shows discovered they needed a rocker. Thus The Knife was conceived and proved to be a crowd favorite. This, however, would be the last album featuring their new drummer John Mayhew who struggled with the material, and more importantly the final album with Ant (Phillips) - arguably the foundation of the band. But that story continues elsewhere... I bought the vinyl fairly late into my discovery of Genesis. It was actually one of the last albums in their back catalog that I purchased. This was around 1981 or 82. And I remember the lp listing each of the three songs on side 1 as exactly 7:00 apiece. (Though various editions and eventual digital releases contradict this.) The record is very Ant driven. That's why its often described as "pastoral," which it is. Aside from The Knife, I think Stagnation is the star of the show and most indicative of the path they'd soon end up embarking upon. And it showcases, if nothing else, Gabriel's vocal chops. I love Trespass. Its a fantastic, though subtle showcase of a band beginning to discover what they were truly capable of. Its an old favorite. Understated, beautiful, at times serene. Other times truly and forcefully progressive, with songs of White Mountains and Dusk and Angels and a wolf named Fang. They never would be as pastoral again, but they did scale new ground, creating music quite unlike anyone else. And Trespass was the foundation for all that was to follow.
