Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    And I want to know why MacPhail is featured on the single's cover, too. :D
     
  2. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    It's like featuring a photo of Neil Aspinall in the gatefold of the White Album!
     
  3. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Suppers ready is longer, but I don't essentially see it as any more complex than Fountain, Hogweed or Musical box
     
    Rojo likes this.
  4. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Trespass was the huge leap forward, I’d say, as compared to the debut LP. I said that I find Foxtrot to be a big step forward from Nursery Cryme (which I thought was more of a placeholder after Trespass) mainly because the material is of such higher quality. Otherwise, yes, I’d say the two albums are similar in feel, approach, and even look when you consider the album covers. But because Foxtrot is such a superior album to Nursery Cryme, it qualifies as a big step forward as I see it.
     
  5. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    yea , I guess it is just perspective. I prefer Nursery Cryme and don't really see a major shift in Foxtrot. Watcher and Get 'em out may be a little more rock, but not much more than the rockiest moments in Nursery. I like Suppers ready, but I don't see it as technically superior, just longer ... not a criticism, just my perspective I guess
     
    Calling All Stations likes this.
  6. Thievius

    Thievius Blue Oyster Cult-ist

    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    I disagree. I think one could make a case for Supper's Ready being superior to anything on Nursery Cryme, but from the end of Watchers until the start of Supper's, I think that's where Foxtrot trails behind. As a cohesive and consistent album, I think Nursery Cryme is the better record. Side 1 of Foxtrot post Watchers, while not bad by any means, just doesn't hold up to that scrutiny.
     
  7. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    it would obviously be subjective as to whether "Supper" is a better song or not, I just mean I don't think it is particularly more technical as such ... I have grown to really like it in this listening spurt
     
  8. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    This is my assumption. He was let go from the project for not getting along with the band/not liking their music, but I find it hard to believe that the band flatly refused to even try out his idea of an intro-less "Watcher". It makes more sense that they reluctantly tried out/recorded his arrangement of the song, and then rejected it (and him) and then got a new producer.

    I know the "official story" is that Watcher was re-recorded for a single, but it does seem a bit unlikely that someone thought "That (the album version) sounds like a potential hit single - we should record a shorter version for AM radio."

    It makes far more sense that the album version is the re-record (done the way the band originally envisioned) and that they later released the earlier recorded "single version" just because they already had it in the can, and decided not to let it go to waste.

    Just my theory anyway.
     
  9. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Fair enough. I’ve already stated that I consider Nursery Cryme to be one of the weakest of their albums.
     
    Rufus rag, mark winstanley and SRC like this.
  10. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    He may have been turned off the by the Mellotron's dismal reputation as a travel/road instrument, which would often break down mid gig, and need constant up-keep/repairs. IIRC Tony said his first mellotron had to be regularly taken apart and rebuilt in-between shows.

    I can also see him being reluctant to add a mellotron, since he was originally very reluctant to adopt the organ (when they became a real professional full time concert performing band in late 1969, rather than just the bunch of aspiring songwriters for others that they had been previously) preferring to stick to the piano as his instrument.

    So I don't doubt that Tony took some "encouraging" from the other band members to finally take that leap into "mellotron hell".
     
    The_Windmill and mark winstanley like this.
  11. Rigsby

    Rigsby Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I think Foxtrot was the first thing I heard from before And then there were three as I got into the band in the mid 80s. I love the 80s era and I always will but I will never forget the moment I put the Foxtrot tape on in my teenage bedroom to be greeted by THAT intro. The moment the drums come in was a formative moment in my life, like touching your girlfriends boobs for the first time!!!

    Mind. BLOWN.
     
  12. thos

    thos Forum Resident

    If I remember correctly, they put a photo of MacPhail on the Genesis Live cover as well, saying that he had left the group at that time. It seems like they almost considered him a band member.
     
  13. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    Same here - and that goes for the live Nursery Cryme and Trespass songs as well. For instance if I want to hear Foxtrot, I'll listen to Foxtrot, but if I just want to listen to 'Watcher' I'll listen to "Genesis Live" instead (or even better the BBC Empire Pool recording from the "Lamb Tour").

    BTW that reminds me that Foxtrot was among the very last Genesis albums I bought (when I was regularly buying up their entire catalog in the mid to late 80s as and when I found them in the racks) since I actually had to special order it. That was their only album I needed to special order BTW, since nearly everything else was very commonly available. Not only that but everything I bought new was replenished in the store pretty quickly after I'd bought them, but Foxtrot was never available, for some reason.

    Anyway that also reminds me (quite clearly) of picking it up from special order at the (now long gone) record store and taking it home for that first listen. Funny how you can remember certain random, seemingly unimportant things in life. I also remember picking up Trespass out of the cassette bargain bin and being initially confused that it was on MCA while everything else was on Atlantic (was there another band called Genesis?) until I looked at the tracklist and saw 'The Knife' listed as I knew it from 'Genesis Live'.

    I also remember getting FGTR near the end of my picking up everything - and after reading a biography on the band so that I knew it was the "same band" even thought it wasn't on Atlantic. I also remember actually being pleasantly surprised by it on first listen, since my expectations of it based on what I'd read about it were so incredibly low - in fact I almost didn't buy it, but the completist in me just couldn't resist it. I was fully expecting it to be total crap, but it was actually decent/listenable.

    I also remember picking up Trick Of The Tail on the last weekend before school started (I think my second year of high school). I always hated going back to school at the end of summer, so I actually bought two albums that day to console myself. What was the other one? No idea, but I definitely remember Trick was one of them, and it definitely helped make the next week or two (of getting back into "the school routine") suck far less than they would have otherwise.

    Another one I don't remember the circumstance of buying, but I do remember my initial reaction to hearing it for the first time, was ATTWT. It was the first and only album (until We Can't Dance) where I was like WTF - there's something "off" about this album, though I couldn't put my finger on what it was. Every other album of theirs - love, like or meh (can't say I ever truly hated any Genesis album) I could always at least see/get what they were doing/trying to do, but that album just baffled me. I grew to kind of/moderately like it over the next decade or so, but initially my reaction was about 50/50 - Meh/WTF?

    ....and finally - the beginning. I remember stumbling upon 'Genesis Live' (probably in summer of 1986 - at the height of "Genesis-Mania" when the band/members/ex-members had 7 songs in the Billboard Hot 100 simultaneously (and four of those in the Top 20). I clearly remember the (long gone) department store where I found and bought it and specifically remember the first listen once I got it home, and being weirded out/blown away by 'Watcher Of the Skies". Well to be more specific the mellotron intro weirded me out, and when the band kicked in with the staccato riff I was blown away. Btw I didn't buy it because I loved what Genesis was doing (together and apart) in the 80s. In fact I was mostly indifferent to them, but my curiosity got the better of me "Wow! all these guy currently making huge hit singles and albums apart from each other (3-man Genesis/Phil solo/Peter solo/Mike+The Mechanics/GTR) all used to be in the same band together - I gotta hear this!"

    I had their entire album collection up to that point within a year..
     
  14. Yakr

    Yakr Forum Resident

    Location:
    CO
    I have a Mojo magazine special Prog edition from about 10 years ago - Foxtrot is #2 in their Top 40 Prog albums (behind Dark Side Of The Moon). The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway is #14.
     
    mark winstanley likes this.
  15. SurrealCereal

    SurrealCereal Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    Harlequin
    The relatively short, simple, and pretty sound of this track offers another welcome rest between the more upbeat tracks. It doesn’t come right off an epic like “For Absent Friends Does,” but it’s also a more fully-developed song, giving it the feeling of a full-fledged album track rather than an acoustic interlude.

    The Fountain of Salamicis
    This is a solid track and a good closer, but I’ve always thought it was a relatively weak epic by Genesis standards. It’s enjoyable, and I appreciate that it does something different than the grand buildups of “Seven Stones” or “The Musical Box,” but it still feels a bit lackluster.

    Happy the Man
    I actually really like this song. It’s not an important Genesis track by any means, but I really enjoy the quirky acoustic sound of it. The vocals are a bit weird, but I don’t think that hurts the song.

    Watcher of the Skies
    IIRC, this was one of the songs that got me into Genesis in the first place; I had a hard time with a lot of the quirkier stuff they put out with Peter Gabriel, and I outright just didn’t like Phil Collins (At the time), but “Watcher of the Skies” was an instant hit with me, perfectly setting the tone for what would be my favorite Genesis album for quite a while. Now, I like this song about on par with its reputation among its fans. I don’t think it’s quite as strong of an opener as the ones on the albums that bookend Foxtrot, but it’s still a great opener and a great song in its own right. I think of it as a quintessential progressive rock song because of its heavy, keyboard-driven sound and science fiction lyrics.
     
    mark winstanley likes this.
  16. Peace N. Love

    Peace N. Love Forum Resident

    I have a vague recollection of someone (Steve?) saying it was likely an attempt to do an acoustic singalong, strum-along thing along the lines of Lindisfarne's "Fog on the Tyne." I may have imagined this, but pretty certain this was mentioned.
     
    mark winstanley likes this.
  17. Giant Hogweed

    Giant Hogweed Senior Member

    Location:
    Exeter, Devon, UK
    Wow! This thread is suitably epic - already at 50 pages and we've only just started on Foxtrot!
    At the risk of being self-indulgent i'm going to quote some of my own earlier post regarding this album as this was my entry into early Genesis:

    As a teenager in the early 90s in the UK, Genesis were probably the most 'uncool' band there could possibly be, so listening to the tape of Foxtrot, I felt a bit like i'd stumbled upon something a bit 'naughty'...my girlfriend at the time thought i'd lost my mind...

    Anyway, I digress, but my thoughts about this album are bound up with those initial impressions...After the mystical feel of 'Trespass' and the Victorian flavour of 'Nursery Cryme', things get a bit more sci-fi and fantastical with this album.

    'Watcher' is an epic opener, though I can't say I particularly get much pleasure out of listening to it too often these days. 'Timetable' is an underrated Banks number, it's very twee and a bit too wordy but that's part of it's charm. I don't listen to 'GEOBF' very often to be honest, I wouldn't put any of these as particular favourites though they're all solid.

    'Can utility and the coastliners' - now we're talking! If someone said to me 'What does early Genesis sound like?', I might give them this to listen to, it's like a (comparatively!) concise version of this era of the band - the 12 strings, the hammond, love Banks' big organ solo in it. Overall the best on the album along with 'Suppers ready'.

    What can be said about 'Suppers Ready' that hasn't been said in the last 45 years?! It's to me the best 'side' long epic of this genre, slightly ahead of 'Echoes' by the Floyd, and less exhausting than 'Close to the edge'. Everyone gets a moment to shine in this song, I wouldn't say it's their best song, but in their top ten for sure.
     
  18. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I liked Happy The Man too. like you say, it's not important but it's quirky and Peter does a good Cat, I reckon lol
     
  19. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    Watcher of the Skies

    Opens with the famous ominous sounding chords on the mellotron. The chords are B Major 7 and C Sharp with F sharp notes in the root. Not ominous that much when played on another instrument but Banks gets a distinct sound from his mellotron. In addition to the root note, I am fairly certain that the third in both chords is dropped which makes them "power chords". I don't see this mentioned in most Genesis sites though. Correct me if you hear otherwise. Regardless they sound stunning. The intro is an exposition of sorts and goes thru a lot of chord changes. At 1:01 we hear a motif that will later be reprised and the organ enters. The intro gradually descends in seconds at times until at 1:31 Mike tries to reign in Banks with an insistent beacon/ code like bass note of F sharp. The song dynamically rises slowly until at 2:13 Mike wins and Banks surrenders with an F sharp chord in unison with Mike. The song's chorus follows. The intro chords form the basis for the verse which starts at 2:45. At 3:17 the verse turns around and at 3:23 the chorus returns but is cut in half. At 3:34 a cool transition section that descends and jumps in half steps enters with another searing Hackett pick scrape at 3:45. Another transition section follows with Banks playing ascending chords. The chorus follows again but is played in full and is reset with a different rhythm and a harder drive. At 4:20 a quick transition line leads the song back to the verse. The chorus returns at 4:55 and is once again halved. The guitar solo and organ solo sections follow. At 5:28 the chorus returns and the song drives forward with fine propulsion. At 5:52 the band plays the bass hook heard in the intro in unison in a coda. Call and response between the band and Banks follows and then at 6:13 an insane interplay between 2/4 and 6/4 time leads to an organ transition section in G sharp minor at 6:20. It gradually ascends in voicings with the G # minor chord underneath refusing to budge. At 6:43, for only the second time in the song, Bank's amazing hook first heard in the intro returns bringing the song's brilliant harmonic journey back home. Incredible reprise of the motif that is like a sigh of relief from the energy that preceded. The song gradually descends further and slows until at 7:00 Hackett adds in some sighing reverse bends on his guitar and the song finally rests on a triumphant sounding A flat major chord.

    Well once again hard not to heap too much praise but IMO this song is a work of brilliance. Amazing use of tension and release and use of the songs harmonic material. Harmonic rhythm that is off the charts with so many changes but they all make sense thru repetition and narrow voice changes and common tones. Genius stuff. Great lyrics and the musicianship is first class. One of the greatest prog rock songs ever recorded.
     
  20. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I'm guessing that Mcphail was on the cover, because they figured the Equipment and sound guy was important to them, and they also state on the cover that he was a "sound friend" .... I think it was just an expression of kinship of some sort
     
  21. Giant Hogweed

    Giant Hogweed Senior Member

    Location:
    Exeter, Devon, UK
    'Happy the man' - to me, more like a B-side than an A-side for sure!
     
    mark winstanley likes this.
  22. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I get the impression, and I could be very wrong, that the band didn't take singles too seriously until later in their career.
    I don't really think prog-rock and singles are good bedfellows
     
    Giant Hogweed likes this.
  23. peterpyser

    peterpyser Forum Resident

    For today's standards, i agree.
    Back in 1972 that kind of acoustic stuff had its public, in fact it was very successful, expecially in the uk.
    They tried to score a hit single, who can blame them, they had to eat as well like everybody else, unfortunately they still hadn't got the skills to produce a real one....
     
  24. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    Nah - there's far more to it than that. MacPhail was a classmate (and likely a dorm-mate - since it was a boarding school), and was the lead singer in the pre-Genesis band 'The Anon" with Mike & Ant, and he is probably the singer on that vintage Anon demo that's on youtube. IIRC the cottage that the band used (living, writing and rehearsing there for 12-16 hours per day, 6 to 7 days a week for several months between FGTR and Trespass) was owned by MacPhail's parents.

    Also he was their biggest cheerleader in the earliest days, and was credited as being the one who convinced the band to stay together when Ant quit, as they didn't feel confident they could go on without him and very nearly disbanded.
     
  25. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    cool ... so he is like a brother to the band
     
    wildstar likes this.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine