Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

  2. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

  3. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

  4. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    That was brit humour. Nobody got "mixed out" from that album.
    (Unless YOU were joking and I didn't get it. Humour is so cruel, at times...)

    It does make sense. The original LP lists titles all in caps, so we can't know if it was intended to be Can-utility (using "Futility") or Can-Utility.
    The link Mark posted above is interpreting Utility in the broad sense of public service, implying that governing is.
    So the title would mean sort of: "The public government according Canute and his followers by the sea listening to him"

    They both relate to Canute's lesson, but I find both playwords to be too much stretched for my tastes. But hey, I'm not Brit.

    It's certainly a nice joke if put like that, playing on Can and changing its place. Still, It wouldn't make any sense per se. What has an opener to do with the whole story?
    Or are they relying on the assonance to reinforce the stretched use of the words?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  5. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    I really hope Phil was using padding on the drums...
     
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  6. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Not likely lol
     
  7. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Horizon's
    This track is purely a solo acoustic guitar and it is beautifully written and executed. Borrowing heavily from classical and Baroque stylings Hackett shows a very good sense of chordal sequencing and melodic structure. This track is seemingly often written off as some sort of prelude to a supper, but I am sure Hackett would be furious about that.
    We also get some really nice usage of harmonic bell tones. I guess the guitar could well be tuned to a chord making these open string bell harmonics, but if they aren't, this effect is gained by gently resting the fatty part of your finger against the string 5, 7 or 12 fret spacings away from the fretting finger as you pluck the string. It is a lovely effect and can take a little disciplined practice to get smooth.
    Nice stuff.
     
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  8. Victor/Victrola

    Victor/Victrola Makng shure its write

    I just found this thread and would like to join in. Looks like we're on Foxtrot? Ah, it's also a song by song thread. Well, I missed out on Time Table and all I'll say is that it is my favorite song on Foxtrot, and always has been. It's pure beauty, both musically and lyrically. Can-Utility is my 2nd favorite and Horizon's is #4. Yeah, I like the little guys on this album a lot, maybe because I've heard the entire album so many times and these don't demand so much of the listener. The entire album is fantastic - my favorite Gabriel-era Genesis album. I first came across it when it was bundled with Nursery Cryme in a double album with a nondescript black cover with only the band and album logos on it. I wasn't quite sure what to make of Nursery Cryme, but Foxtrot spoke to me in ways that can never be duplicated.

    I'm no guitar player, but I do appreciate picking, especially acoustic guitar. With Horizon's, Hackett became an instant favorite with his delicate and precise fingering.

    The only complaint I have about Foxtrot is it's sound. It's incredibly cold sounding, particularly Horizon's. If they'd back up the mic just a little more, give the strings room to breathe and cut it a little less hot, this track would be one of the most gorgeous short acoustic guitar pieces ever attempted.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  9. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Welcome to the thread.
     
  10. rancher

    rancher Unmade Bed

    Location:
    Ohio
    sweet anti-Vietnam and "Dump NATO" poster going there ...
     
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  11. RBtl

    RBtl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    This is like some of the strange things you'll find on Beatles records (Strawberry Fields most notably) where it might have been a mistake, or less than perfect, in the first place but it becomes part of the essence of the song. I'm happy to believe it was "meant to be" that way, even if some overzealous engineer corrected it later.
     
  12. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

  13. dubious title

    dubious title Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario
    A few great pictures posted here I've never seen before, thanks Mark.

    I remember Tony saying that he/the band were frustrated by the equipment and technology available in the early days, they were trying to make this epic music and the gear just wasn't up to the challenge. Foxtrot kind of exemplifies this frustration, the music is maybe as grand as they ever attempted but the recorded album sounds quite tame and lacks power. The close miked drums especially sound quite tame. It was a thrill to hear the morse code section of Watcher sounding so fierce on bootlegs, and also love the end section of Watcher on the British 3 Sides Live where Phil is thrashing away on the drums. I suspect this regret about how some of the early albums sounded had something to do with the heavy handed limiting/compression used on the latest round of remasters. Tony wanted them to sound tougher. Both Phil and Tony often enough talked about John Bonham's fantastic recorded drum sound. Regrettably Tony in the late 70's had no issues with the wimpy and unconvincing Vp-330 replacing the mellotron or using the expensive but soulless Synclavier.

    Would also like to comment quickly about Phil's drumming on the intro of Watcher. I think most drummers would have taken the easier route and simply played alternating strokes on the snare drum, but Phil plays the pattern in unison with the high hat. The kick comes in mid way through building the polyrhythmic excitement. Played at a fast tempo it's a fairly challenging part.
     
  14. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

  15. AidanB

    AidanB Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Definitely not the easiest part to play, but if you have good wrist technique and use Moeller strokes, it isn’t that bad.
     
  16. dubious title

    dubious title Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario
    True, but there are the Berkley trained drummers from another planet and then there are drummers from the 60s and 70s making it up as they went.
     
  17. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    yea it is remarkable how education has improved everything from vocal technique to instrumental technique in the last few decades.... sadly all the technique training feels like it has somewhat dried up a lot of creativity
     
  18. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    When I think of favorite Genesis songs it's easy to mention all the big epics and such, but to be honest few pieces of music are as emotionally satisfying as "Horizons". It speaks to me. I wish I had the ability to play it myself.
     
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  19. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    If you focus too much on technique alone you lose fantasy.
    But I think it's related to the general cultural "climate" these guys grow up in, not just the training. It's not the Seventies anymore.
     
  20. AidanB

    AidanB Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Though you forget Phil Collins was classically trained :)

    Though you’re definitely right. Rock drummers of the 60’s and 70’s were generally jazz drummers to some degree, that’s why they’re so good. Nowadays, when it comes to drummers and musicians in my generation, most are brought up in a strictly classical environment. Musical satisfaction is rooted in competition, which promotes technical prowess and exact interpretation rather than creativity and individualistic thinking. I’m lucky I was brought up in a rock, and then a jazz enviromment, because I’ve come to love and become skilled in both styles, which adds layers of creativity and multiethnic facets to your playing. Also, in rock and jazz, the drummer is really in the driver’s seat which allows me to create and observe lots of musical experiments, which is the true appeal and fun in music performance and drumming in my opinion. What’s more satisfying to me than anything is setting up different sorts of “communication” experiments and seeing how they play out.

    TL;DR: I like doing weird crap in music and seeing how people react, which is something absent from a lot of young musicians these days.

    Check out Jacob Collier if you want to hear some good examples.
     
  21. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    definitely, i was blessed with my best mate being a power drummer, but a power drummer who liked to try things out and was inspired by Collins, Peart, Bonham, Cobham etc ... He called me one day when I was seventeen to jam and we were both raw as a fresh cut, but we played in bands together for thirty years, and whenever he wasn't in the stool, it just didn't feel right ... i think i am a frustrated drummer myself, but yelling and wailing on the guitar were more natural for me :)
     
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  22. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Mark, you copied the typo from the old LP label!!!

    Should be just "Horizons" without an apostrophe.
     
  23. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Well I did actually type it lol ... I assumed it was a plural, and Grammar isn't my strong suite lol
     
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  24. HenryH

    HenryH Miserable Git

    He was? Where? Or am I missing some cheekiness on your part? :confused:
     
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  25. rednoise

    rednoise Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston
    Really? I've always used the apostrophe. I think it was printed that way on my LP. I figured it was a deliberate misuse, kind of like the Rolling Stones "Paint It, Black".
     
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