Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. Godbluff

    Godbluff Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Probably this story has done the rounds too many times to be news to most, but here it is anyway. In 1973 Lindisfarne split into two factions, Alan Hull and Ray Jackson were looking to move the band in a different direction while the remaining three formed Jack the Lad and stuck closer to the parent band's folk-rock. Their album Fog on the Tyne had been the biggest selling album in the UK in '72. On the back of it their debut album had also charted highly and they'd also had a couple of hit singles, so compared to Genesis were a much bigger act commercially at the time and Charisma had used a lot of the revenue it gained from Lindisfarne's success into bankrolling Genesis until they broke through. Alan and Jacka started recruiting members for a mark 2 version of the band and came up with the idea of persuading Phil to jump ship from Genesis, already knowing him well from frequent tours together as label mates at Charisma. Here's an interview with Jacka that tells the story, you'll have to scroll down some way to find the revelant section.

    Ray Jackson: March 2004 (pt. II)
     
  2. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    On SEBTP, Hackett really shines as a melodic player in the scheme of Genesis. His previous solos were more riff based. He gets a freer reign on this album and he nails it IMO never overplaying and adding just enough to the harmonic scheme. His use of tension and release is fantastic on the opening song knowing just the right amount of repetition and variation.
     
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  3. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Thanks for the correction :righton:
     
  4. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

  5. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    Yes - I could never understand how/why this album gets as much praise as it does - if internet fan polls are any indication, it seems to be most people's favorite Genesis album. Sure it has some stellar stuff on it, but also some mediocrity (and worse) as well.

    For me the best track (probably my #1 favorite Genesis track of all is 'Cinema Show/Isle Of Plenty' (the two being inseparable in my mind).

    Firth Of Fifth is second to the above (not too far behind, but definitely second)

    Moonlit Knight is just very very good (but not quite great/top tier like the above two)

    I Know What I Like is just 'OK' - I can take it or leave it.

    Epping Forest is a bit of an overcooked mess. All the elements are there for a good song - too many elements in fact. It could have/should have been better. Its one of the very few tracks from the early years where the band members themselves claim in interviews was too busy where I actually agree with them.

    After The Ordeal is a bit boring. Genesis has done quite a few instrumental songs that I absolutely love, but that's usually because they have an excitement to them/they built to something. However this one just doesn't.

    More Fool Me is even more boring than 'After The Ordeal' (which is a pretty impressive accomplishment)
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
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  6. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

  7. mx20

    mx20 Enthusiast

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Briefly put, SEbtP is classic Classic Genesis. Maybe it's too long an LP, maybe they could have used some editing, whatever.... It's an absolute stunner of an album if early Genesis is to your liking. I'm a bit surprised by the amount of neutral/negative feedback here amongst fans, but, for me, this is Genesis at their best.

    Could I live without More Fool Me & After The Ordeal both being on the album? Yes. At least one of those could've been a non-LP b-side to I Know What I Like.

    My only real complaint, however, is that the backing track (specifically the drums) on Firth Of Firth doesn't sound like Phil's strongest effort. They probably played the song 14 times that day & picked the take that contained the fewest mistakes, but not necessarily the most passionate take, IMO. But I've never heard any one else ever singleu-out the drumming in Firth as weaker than it should be, so maybe it's just me? :)
     
  8. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    I always thought the coda on the opening track did not really help the song. I think if it ended at 6:10 it would have not detracted from it.
     
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  9. mx20

    mx20 Enthusiast

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    I can understand your point, but I'm absolutely in love with that outro! Pretty ballsy to have played it live on stage, too. But I take your point.


     
  10. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    This may sound strange, but although this isn't my number 1 genesis album, i wouldn't actually change a thing.
     
  11. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    I really like the album as well but it is not my #1. The only thing I don't like about it is the lack of heavy sections. A little too pastoral for me. Heck I guess they were trying to go for an Edward Elgar type sound. :D
     
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  12. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    This album essentially shows that Genesis were changing way before Peter Gabriel left.
    They were continually morphing and trying things out. Lamb is something completely different again.
    To me this is one of the great things about this band.
     
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  13. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    I agree. Lots more piano on this one. The keyboards used were changing. Heck they even tried a simpler structure with the next song as we will find out.
     
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  14. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    Another personal comment about SEBTP - I wish Genesis had had more to "be" the band that released the album. While I do think that NC to Foxtrot to SEBTP was the same band growing and refining their sound, I think that SEBTP was the pinnacle of that sound and I wish that they had done another album in that style. But instead they did The Lamb and, due to the decision to play all of Lamb on the next tour, they didn't play much else live on that tour (and nothing from SEBTP) and then PG left the band, ending that incarnation of it. Not that I don't love The Lamb - it's my 2nd favorite Genesis album. I just wish that they could have had more time to be the SEBTP version of Genesis.
     
  15. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Easy reference guide

    Genesis - A History
    - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    From Genesis To Revelation 1969 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Liner notes Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 1 When The Sour Turns To Sweet Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    without strings Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 2 In The Beginning Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 3 The Fireside Song Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    without strings Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 4 The Serpent Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 5 Am I Very Wrong Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 6 In The Wilderness Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    rough mix Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 7 The Conqueror Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 8 In Hiding Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    without strings Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 9 One Day Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    without strings Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 10 The Window Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    alternate Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 11 In Limbo Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    alternate Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 12 Silent Sun Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    without strings Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 13 A Place to call my own Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    new mix Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    Other Early Tracks
    Patricia (In Hiding demo) Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    A Winter's Tale (single) Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    A Winters Tale (alternate -with studio banter) Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    That's Me Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Image Blown Out Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Build Me A Mountain Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    On The Trail Of The One Eyed Hound Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Let Us Now Make Love Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Jackson Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    Trespass 1970- Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    inside gatefold Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    sleeve Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 1 Looking For Someone Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    live at BBC Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 2 White Mountain Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    live in'76 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 3 Visions Of Angels Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 4 Stagnation Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Stagnation (BBC sessions) Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 5 Dusk Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    demo Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 6 The Knife Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    Road To Nursery Cryme - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    Live in 1971 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    Nursery Cryme 1971 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 1 Musical Box Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    live at the bbc Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    F# or Manipulation Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    live Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    live 74 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 2 For Absent Friends Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 3 Return Of The Giant Hogweed Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 4 Seven Stones Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 5 Harold The Barrel Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    piano and guitar Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 6 Harlequin Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 7 Fountain Of Salmacis Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    live '78 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    Belgian Pop Shop live 1972 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Twilight Alehouse live '72 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    Peel Sessions
    Fountain of Salmacis Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Harlequin Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Return Of The Giant Hogweed Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Harold The Barrel Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    Happy The Man Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    live in Rome Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    Foxtrot 1972 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 1 Watcher Of The Skies Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    live Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    single Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    b-side Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 2 Time Table Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 3 Get Em Out By Friday Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 4 Can Utility and the Coastliners Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 5 Horizons Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 6 Supper's Ready Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Supper's Ready (live) Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    Genesis Live 1973 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 1 Watcher of the Skies Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 2 Get Em Out By Friday Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 3 Return Of the Giant Hogweed Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 4 Musical Box Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 5 The Knife Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Back In NYC Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Supper's Ready Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    Selling England By The Pound 1973 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    track 1 Dancing With the Moonlit Knight Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Demo Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    live 73 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Live 78 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    isolated guitar and vocals Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

    live in 72 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    live in 73 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    live in 73 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
    Live at the Rainbow 1973 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
     
  16. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I'd probably end up placing Selling England By The Pound as my second favorite Genesis album, but I don't think it is very far ahead of Foxtrot, mainly because the lyrics on Foxtrot are vastly superior for the most part to what is on SEBTP (it almost seems like Gabriel was on vacation for part of these sessions; there seem to be more instrumental minutes than vocal minutes on this album). I first bought it in the early 1980s on LP when I was catching up on Genesis' catalog after I first got into the band. This one was much easier to find in the US as it had been issued on Atco and was still in print; unlike the earlier Genesis LPs that were only available as imports. Unfortunately, my LP was not a gatefold and omitted the lyric sheet, which I never knew existed until I chanced upon someone else's copy of the album. The lack of the lyric sheet make it quite hard to figure out what was going on in songs like "The Battle of Epping Forest".

    The first half (original Side 1) is nearly perfect, with one highlight leading straight into the next highlight. Only the comparatively half-baked "More Fool Me" lets the side down at the end. The second half (original Side 2) is a bit weaker, mainly because "The Battle of Epping Forest" doesn't really work for me. "After the Ordeal" is very pretty and, of course, "The Cinema Show/Aisle Of Plenty" is a masterpiece. I do find Collins' drumming curiously muted on this album; the live performances I've heard of these songs feature much more powerful and energetic drumming (particularly the partial performance of "The Cinema Show" on Three Sides Live; I wish they had performed the entire song instead of including it in one of those terrible "medleys" they became prone to playing during their later years).

    This was the best sounding Genesis album yet, and that went a long way toward making it seem like an important step forward for the band as a professional recording unit.
     
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  17. Rigsby

    Rigsby Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I grew up with this album on cassette and it had a different running order then which means I still struggle with how it plays out on vinyl and CD! Love it to bits anyway although these days I'll skip Epping Forest.
     
  18. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    To say that Marillion was "influenced" by Genesis is one way to put it - tactfully. ;) *coughs

    As you might guess, I am not a fan of Marillion, at least not their early career. They did redeem themselves a bit later on and develop an original sound, but not one I have ever come to love.
     
  19. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    I prefer them later on but I like them anyway. I just don't care they are Genesis copycats. Actually, I like that.

    There was a vignette once with Fish in it saying: "We didn't copy Genesis. We copied everyone!"
     
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  20. HiredGoon

    HiredGoon Forum Resident

    I've also heard that Marillion's Grendel is influenced by the Apocalypse In 9/8 section of Supper's Ready. But it's kinda subtle :laugh:

    Anyway, I'd never heard of Marillion here in Oz, except for a throwaway line in British comedy series The Young Ones, but I was obsessed with Selling England By The Pound. When I saw Script For A Jester's Tear in the record shop one day and had a listen out of curiosity ... well, instant purchase for me based on the first 10 seconds :D

    --Geoff
     
  21. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Funny thing about Dancing.
    I never thought the song had a solo before reading this thread. Steve parts always felt to me organic to the instrumental passages. They were just that, instrumental passages alternating the instrument "guitar" to the instrument "voice". A rock "solo" in my mind is when the guitar takes prominence, shows off so to speak, and everything else is there just to support it. Here I never lose the impression of an organic ensemble playing together. There's lots going on. Tony's mello's low tones are almost dueting with Steve, which helps.
     
  22. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    BTW, I think I heard Grendel a couple times and I don't remember a single note of it.
     
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  23. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)
    "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)"
    [​IMG]
    Single by Genesis
    from the album Selling England by the Pound
    B-side "Twilight Alehouse"
    Released February 1974[1]
    Format 7"
    Recorded August 1973
    Genre Psychedelic rock
    Length 4:06
    Label Charisma
    Atlantic
    Songwriter(s)

    Producer(s)
    "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)" was the first charting single by the rock band Genesis. It was drawn from their 1973 album Selling England by the Pound. The single was released in the UK in February 1974,[1] and became a minor hit[2] in April 1974, when it reached number 21 in the UK Singles Chart.[3]

    The song's lyrics concern a young man who is employed as a groundsman and who says that he does not want to grow up and do great things, being perfectly happy where he is, pushing a lawn mower. Betty Swanwick's painting The Dream, which was used for the Selling England album cover, alludes to the song; Swanwick added the mower to the original painting at the band's request.

    The song, inspired by the Beatles,[2] has a psychedelic rock sound, using hand percussion rhythms and a riff from Steve Hackett that originated from a jam between Hackett and Phil Collins.[4] Keyboardist Tony Banks used a note played on the low end of the Mellotron during the intro and ending to imitate the sound of a lawn mower.

    Reviewing the song in The Guardian in 2014, Stevie Chick said "Clocking in at a shade over four minutes, "I Know What I Like" rises with a heat-haze shimmer, before locking into a groove akin to Traffic’s "Hole in My Shoe", a hippy reverie that fits the song’s slacker vibe like a pair of tailored bell-bottoms. The song’s anti-hero is a misfit, like all the others in the Gabriel-era songbook, a drop-out happy with his lawnmowing life, despite the disapproving whispers of his suburban neighbours. His rebellion is soundtracked by a nagging, lazy sitar lick, a woozy singalong chorus, and a flute solo that Pan's People doubtless interpreted through the medium of dance when the song appeared on Top Of The Pops after reaching No 21 in the charts (footage of which has sadly yet to reach YouTube)."[5]

    Released by Charisma in the UK in February 1974, "I Know What I Like" was the band's only pop hit of their early years, at a time when progressive rock bands largely avoided the singles market. The song was played on Top of the Pops. Its success would not be topped until And Then There Were Three album's "Follow You Follow Me", some four years later in 1978.

    The B-side was the non-album track "Twilight Alehouse", recorded during the sessions for Foxtrot (1972) but left off the album due to lack of room. Its lyrics portray a lonely man who finds solace in the local tavern. The song had been in Genesis' live set since 1970 but was not recorded in the studio until 1972 during the Foxtrotsessions, and its initial release was held until this point. "Twilight Alehouse" was later released as part of Genesis Archive 1967–75

    Later live versions of this song (such as the one on Seconds Out) feature an extended instrumental section which includes snippets of various other Genesis songs – such as "Visions of Angels", "Blood on the Rooftops", "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight" and "Stagnation" – and songs by other artists, such as "Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood". In the version on "The Way We Walk", snippets include "Follow You Follow Me", "That's All", "Illegal Alien" and "Your Own Special Way". Phil Collins performed a dance during these instrumentals, using a tambourine in a tight, rhythmic fashion against his hands, elbows, knees, feet, ass and head; this can seen in the Genesis: In Concert film from 1977, as well as the live DVDs The Way We Walk – Live in Concert (1992) and When in Rome 2007.

    For The Way We Walk and Turn It On Again tours, this song was played as part of a medley of old Genesis songs, and starting with the A Trick of the Tail tour in 1976 was often performed with excerpts of "Stagnation", from the album Trespass (1970). During the Turn It On Again tour shows, images from the band's history cycled by in the background.

    In 1993, Marillion's ex-frontman Fish did a cover version on his Songs from the Mirror album. Fish said his decision to cover the song was to prove to his critics that he could interpret a song differently from Gabriel, having been previously dismissed in his career as a Gabriel clone.[6]
    -------------------------------------------------------
    This is actually a pretty good song and importantly for Genesis a minor hit as a single. The fact that it was a minor hit it not surprising to me, because it is one of the most catchy and novelty songesque things that the band ever did.
    Also being a minor hit certainly helped this album to be their biggest selling album up to this point.
    The song starts with some synth drones and then Gabriel comes in doing a spoken first person monologue that it seems most Genesis fans have memorised.
    The guitar has an almost sitar like sound to in. Musically the song is a lot less complicated and is really a blueprint for a lot of the post-Gabriel Genesis songs.
    The bass is right up in the front of the mix and gives the song a bit of a strut.
    I personally haven't ever really listened to the album and thought that Collins' drums weren't present. I can only assume that the much smoother production here, gives that impression to some degree.

     
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  24. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Twilight Alehouse
    The b-side for I know What I Like was this much older track. I am guessing that this track just missed out on the Trespass album, as it has a sound like it would almost fit on that album. I think it works well as a b-side.
    This is actually a pretty good song. The verses are slower and reflective, with the chorus coming in a bit faster and harder. We get a nice little flute interlude ... and this whole thread I keep thinking to myself "how did I not notice how much flute Gabriel played with the band before.
     
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  25. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    It seems that the single version of I know what I like edited out the beginning .. which seems odd to me, as that part works as a hook for me and gives the song some character.
     
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