I do like the studio version, mainly because it has a very intriguing feel -- especially the spoken intro, with all the subtle percussion background sounds. However, I find the live version in "Seconds Out" to be far superior.
Brilliant song. The lyrics are fine but they are a bit vague, which adds to their worth IMO. I find a lot of Banks' more explicit lyrics far less appealing.
it's a beautiful melodic piece of music .... I get tired of the whole "what will people think" thing. Make your music and see what happens
It was stated the guitar solo was going for a Crimson esque sound with the soaring Mellotron in there so in this case even if the band had some issues at first by the end of the piece you can't really say that mentality changed it drastically. If any piece was self indulgent it was The Cinema Show but it hardly matters when it's so good.
Wasn't there a quote from Banks where he said that they always wanted to be an arty-type pop band like 10cc (or at least have that side to them), but the songs always ended up too long? IKWIL could be a good parallel to 10cc.
Very much so. Sounds more than a bit childish these days but that was how it was at the time, at least in the UK, I don't have enough personal experience to comment about anywhere else. Looking back you can see how overly serious and po-faced it had become - the progressive bands (using 'progressive' in its original meaning, a catch-all term for all bands operating outside the commercial mainstream) were making 'serious' music and getting involved with the sort of rampant commercialism encountered on Top of the Pops and the singles chart was beneath them - it had become that polarised by the early 70s. However, I think that type of attitutide belonged more to a section of the hard-core fans rather than the bands themselves, many of whom could still see the benefit of a hit single or two. Some like Led Zeppelin streadfastly stuck to their policy of not releasing any singles in the UK, which was easy when you already had their level of success and didn't need the added publicity of a hit single.
Firth of Fifth There are not too many rock groups who would use the word "undinal" in a song. That must rate alongside Joni Mitchell's inclusion of "arbutus" and "keloids" in the list of most esoteric words appearing in rock lyrics. Anyway, regarding the song itself, it would be the highlight of the album, were it not for the presence of Cinema Show later on. We'll get to that later... FoF is one of those songs that put Genesis firmly in the progressive camp, if there were ever any doubt. I say that because of the way this song sounds at times like sophisticated soft rock, and at other times like something out of the classical era, almost like something Beethoven, Chopin or Tchaikovsky could have written.
Quite possibly. I believe the term for this is "snobbery". Those hard-core fans felt they had better and more sophisticated musical tastes than the common people, and resented it when their favourite musicians released music that might have been enjoyed by those outside their own narrow circle.
In a Genesis group I am a member of on Facebook (the Book of Genesis), someone (UK based) has posted a message saying they are looking for fans of 70s Genesis to assist them in answering some questions about how they interpret the lyrics of that era for a dissertation they are doing, looks interesting - I would take part but I'm more a 'music' guy than a 'lyrics' guy so would have absolutely no insight into it! Anyway, here's a link which may work; Alison Duckers
I thought I read somewhere (I'll try to find the source) that it was Michael R. who played the sitar. But regardless I love that sound and I don't think Genesis ever used it again.
Steve certainly played it on the sitar guitar live, so I've no reason to think he didn't do the same in the studio.
I listened to Selling and S/T together back then. My first Genesis ever. Firth Of Fifth and That's All. What do they have in common? Piano intro at the beginning, reprised with synth/keys in the middle. The same trick, ten years apart. First thing I noticed. As for the first track: Dat Guitar Solo, man.
It seems that Steve owns an electric sitar which you can see him holding way down toward the bottom of his equipment page on his site. It doesn't look like the same sitar in the Live 1973 film. Steve Hackett Official Website There another thread on this site, started by Steve Hoffman himself, that asks for examples of sitar use in rock songs, either real Indian sitar or electric sitar. While I can't vouch for the accuracy of mkolesa's claim, (s)he states it was Michael that played the sitar on the studio version. What pop / rock songs used a real sitar instead of a Coral Electric Sitar? Help me out here.. Chris Welch in the book Genesis: The Complete Guide to their Music says MR also added a sitar to his guitar collection around the SEBTP period but he doesn't say who played the sitar on the track. Edward Macan in Rocking The Classics (pg 224) says MR played the sitar on IKWIL. So I don't think we have a definitive answer yet for this factoid.
Surprised to see no mention of Aldo Tagliapietra's superb use of Sitar in quite a few of songs both of his solo and his band repertoire. Well yeah, not that surprising since not an English native speaker rock/pop musician or band is concerned.
The one on his website is a Jerry Jones Baby Electric Sitar, the one he played live in '73/'74 was a Coral, made by Danelectro. Incidentally Hendrix also owned one, the only left handed model they ever made. When IKWIL returned to the live set for the TOTT and W&W tours he always used the Les Paul Goldtop instead. I'd never heard any suggestion it was anyone other than Steve playing it on the studio version until now. I'm sure I can remember interviews from around the time when he mentions using it but I'm not sure I could lay my hands on any, I sold all my old music weeklies a couple of years back. If you listen to the rehearsal tapes Mike is clearly playing bass and Steve the sitar guitar. Pretty definitive for me.
And yet, the LP cover credits MR with sitar. Odd. Maybe Steve played the riff on guitar and MR doubled on sitar for the album version?
I see a lot of references to Mike playing including the credits but in a 2016 interview Steve said: No, the sitar guitar was actually mine and I played it again through a Lesley cabinet and through a fuzz box and it didn’t really distort but it was heading towards distortion. Though later on he does reference Mike seeing it as a sitar thing.
The In Concert 1976 film should show Steve playing pretty clearly -- I Know What I like is part of the set -- unless Steve isn't on camera due to Phil's usual routine. I won't get a chance to check it out 'til later today/tonight.
You can tell who the guitar freaks are on this forum. The thing that stands out for me above all else on Firth of Fifth is the piano. And no, not a "piano solo", piano used as part of the song accompaniment.
There are a number of contemporary interviews in published by the U.K. music press in which they say how dissatisfied they were with TV shows and that cemented a reluctance to do them, effectively refusing to do both TOTP and OGWT - the only U.K. TV music shows that carried any weight in terms of generating sales. The comment about them not being very good at writing 3-4 minute pop songs was a comment made in retrospect which in my view was them justifying their later success with the charts. Banks in ‘74 did comment that if it were up to him they’d do more TV work and aim for hit singles. The antipathy for that actually came equally from Gabriel and Collins. They had the same lack of control as their peers - the point I was making is that Mott the Hoople, Queen and Roxy managed OK and did well out of those appearances especially on TOTP. Genesis could have done as well if they’d played the game.
