All told, I think Genesis did quite well, despite not playing the game. They did top the albums chart about six times. Of course I suppose it depends on your definition of "do well".
Firth Of Fkn Fifth is Firth Of Fkn Awsum. The piano intro. The guitar solo. The bass. The pedals. The drums. Musically it is peerless. Guitars coulda been heavier in the verses, maybe. Lyrically it's clunky ("like a cancer growth is removed by skill" ... yikes) and vocally it's fine although I often wonder what it would be like if given a bit more welly. But still ... Fkn Awsum. --Geoff
Not even the melodic bass lines in the chorus? Sounds like Paul himself may have written them. The Lennonesque droney approach in the verse as well.
Firth of Fifth Lots of fine comments already. Just a couple of technical comments that may be worth mentioning. The piano intro is unusual in that melodic content is secondary. The repeating rhythmic use of arpeggios is what gives the intro its life. Sort of on the same principal as the first movement in Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata. The intro starts in B flat and then goes thru changes in fourths. When the verse comes in at 1:11 a descending chord pattern in E major sounds somewhat stately. Fantastic melody from Peter. At 2:10 a cool tempo change in the verse mixes it up with everyone adding shades of different colors. At 2:17 the chords change to B flat minor and fit the lyrics just right. Fantastic use of tonicization to match the somber lyrics. At 3:04 the transition section stays in E major but then again in Bank's trademark fashion, the flute section does a minor drop to E minor at 3:32. The melody played by Peter is a great one with some use of pedal tones and then at 3:44 an E minor arpeggio and at the tail an accidental D# note at 3:46......this note really makes the melody IMO and reminds us of the key of the verse section in E Major. The D # is borrowed from E major and really gives the melody an eerie sound. At 4:12 a transition section leads the song back to a reprise of the intro but it is now brilliantly reset with a more heavier sound. At 5:12 Steve's trills are perfectly paced to add a lot of tension. Fantastic playing from everyone. Steve's guitar solo section starts with a somewhat improvisatory start back in E minor. He hints at the main melody just a little and then at 6:22 with some heavy sustained notes somewhat Gilmour like, he plays the main melody with a little more space than Peter did. At 7:41 some more effects are added to the guitar and it sounds grand. At 8:04 the section does a lift to E Major and releases a lot of the tension. At 8:36 the verse returns back in E major and at 9:17 a fragmentary reprise of the intro but still in E major is used to bring the song to an end. A great song. The intro is fantastic and is very classical influenced as already mention by others on the thread. Brilliant use of tonicization between the key changes to match the lyrics emotional basis. Everyone plays their best. Odd tempos in the intro as well to the point where it really is hard to fit the notes into bars. Very freely played which gives it a rock type sound as well.
Is it true that the intro was dropped from some live versions due to it being too difficult for Tony to nail every night? I found that somewhat hard to believe and thought maybe it was just too long for playing live.
Firth of Fifth I like this song, but not quite as much as most other Genesis fans. I’ve seen it routinely referred to as one of their greatest songs, but it’s never had that effect on me. When I really pay attention to it, I can start to see what makes it so special to a lot of people, but I’ve never been blown away by it or anything. I do really like how it gives every band member plenty of time to show their strengths. The piano playing and the guitar solo stand out as the best moments in my mind.
Here is a little oddity I didn't know of from the Selling England sessions (?). Certainly not classic Genesis, but it's interesting hearing them try and jam out a new tune. I notice Phil was disciplined enough to keep it very straight so everyone had something to fall back on.
I have some recordings where he still had the intro but I've heard (I think in an interview with Tony) that it was really hard to play on the keyboards he could take on tour and that it totally went off the rails one night. The intro was dropped after that. I've also heard that it didn't sound right live but I tend to go with the first story since he did start the tour playing the intro.
Firth of Fifth is definitely a desert island song for me. I know that Tony (who wrote it) hates the lyrics, but the lyrics are secondary.....I tend to pay way more attention to the music, and to the sound of the lyrics, as opposed to their meaning. This song is aural heroin for me. Gets me high every time I listen to it.
Honestly, no. One could equally say that Elton John could have written them, or any of myriad other composers. You know that saying "When you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail"?
My understanding, and I could be wrong ... The keyboard used live at that stage didn't have weighted keys and it was problematic getting the feel right (as a piano player would understand) for example, it would be like a guitarist having to use a vastly different string gauge and it just wouldn't feel right
Well, I think you are implying that I have some Beatles fixation and my opinion is totally biased. Not the case. Just because you don't hear it, don't try to diminish my opinion with baseless accusations.
From Wiki. I think a band member was quoted saying this. The song, inspired by the Beatles,[2] has a psychedelic rock sound, using hand percussion rhythms and a riff from Steve Hackett that originated from a jam between Hackett and Phil Collins.[4] Keyboardist Tony Banks used a note played on the low end of the Mellotron during the intro and ending to imitate the sound of a lawn mower.
Oh I see now. You were referring to "I Know What I Like". I thought we were on "Firth of Fifth". A misunderstanding. Yes I can hear a little bit of Beatles there, faintly reminiscent of "Baby You're a Rich Man".
If that was too difficult to play, then I guess Banks wasn't as much of a player as we thought. More likely, though, it's just out of place. Maybe not on the album, but certainly at a rock show.
I am pretty sure I read a story somewhere from Tony about playing this on stage one night, completely messing it up, having to stop and yelling something out in frustration - and then giving up playing it after that. I even want to say that his father might have been in the audience at the time... (I used to know SO much about Genesis but I just turned 40 and my memory is starting to let me down!)
Ha, I sent my friend this version the other day and said “and this is why Tony stopped playing the intro live”... it’s not terrible, but there are a good number of flubbed notes. If I saw a tribute band and the keyboard player played it like this, I’d be complaining that they needed a better keyboard player...
It sounds beautiful and lush on the album, I suppose because it's played on a real piano. Live, even when Tony nailed it, it sounded dinky on whatever electric piano he was using. I don't think it was ever out of place, though it is undeniably more dramatic without it.
