I knew I hadn’t made this up! I was nearly right... Post from a comment thread on the Tabletop Genesis podcast website... ... Tony Banks was interviewed by Rick Wakeman just before Christmas and he they discussed Firth of Fifth. Tony said the problem with the intro was because he couldn’t take a full-sized piano on the SEBTP tour, he had to adjust the intro slightly. Unfortunately at a concert at Drury Lane, he forgot and when he got to near the end of the intro, he realised he had run out of keys and he just stopped! His parents apparently were in the audience and afterwards his father commented he thought that halt was deliberate so Tony could take a bow after the intro! ...
[QUOTE="Rojo, post: 20015082, member: 54331”] There are also backing vocals in the live version of "Entangled" that is featured in the Genesis Archives 2 boxset..[/QUOTE] There are - but if you listen carefully, I’m pretty sure they are all Phil. Which I found amusing when they claimed they hadn’t done any overdubs for that set. (I guess they didn’t, in the 1990s!)
Yeah I don't mind Tony's voice, as in it doesn't make listening to his album difficult - his voice is decent/OK/gets the job done. Mike's is just unacceptable and makes his album borderline unlistenable. Its unfortunate since there's nothing wrong with the songs themselves, and they would definitely shine with a proper singer. BTW I remember joking with myself both immediately after it was announced that Genesis planned to continue without Phil when he quit, and again after the album failed (in the US) and they took their ball and went home: Maybe they should just have continued the "attrition model" that had served them so well since 1975, instead of bringing in a new singer and drummer. They should have had Tony handle the lead vocals since his voice though not great is definitely and by far the lesser of the two available evils, and then for drums - well have a look at who's playing Phil's kit for this tune :
I paid 40 bucks (US dollars) -- shipping included! It's a nice looking CD. - The seller even threw in a DVD of the Shepperton stuff (which, of course, I already had via the "Foxtrot" DVD part of the 1970 - 1975 SACD boxset). YEAH, I'm a f*cking fool, I know . I like physical media. But ... Never again. I'm too old to be chasing waterfalls, dammit! Let my stupidity (and the lesson learned) be a beacon to others who are uniformed.
I wonder just how much doctoring was done on their original 70s live albums? There are - but if you listen carefully, I’m pretty sure they are all Phil. Which I found amusing when they claimed they hadn’t done any overdubs for that set. (I guess they didn’t, in the 1990s!)[/QUOTE]
Tony's voice is OK - not wonderful, but OK. The idea of doing the vocals himself was something that occurred to him only very late in the piece. Apparently the reason he did not make a habit of it, and continued to use guest vocalists, was not so much that he was displeased with the sound of his own voice, but rather that he found it surprisingly stressful having to do everything himself. I think he said he did not realise how much extra work was involved, and it distracted him from the part he felt most comfortable with, which was of course playing the keyboards.
First day of rain in Bako means finally ending my long Genesis break. Wasn’t sure which album I wanted to listen to but I decided on Wind and Wuthering. Oh I’ve missed this band. I have so damn much to catch up on this thread now. I’m happy it’s been so popular.
Though he did continue to sing lead - one song each on his next two solo albums. IIRC 'Big Man' on Bankstatement, and 'Hero For An Hour' on Still Even Mike didn't give up singing lead completely after his second solo album, as he sang lead on a song he gave to the 'Against All Odds' soundtrack along with a song from Peter 'Walk Through The Fire' and of course a song from Phil. The Mike song was called 'Making A Big Mistake' Insert punchline here ................................................
Actually wouldn't he have discovered that from his previous album where he came far closer to doing everything himself? Chester Thompson on drums, Kim Beacon on vocals and Tony on everything else - keys/guitar/bass guitar. On his second album OTOH he only played keys and sang, using Daryl on guitars, as well as a bass player and three different drummers.
Perhaps - but I suppose if singing is something he was not accustomed to, doing the vocals might seem a lot of extra work.
The Battle Of Epping Forest "The Battle of Epping Forest" was inspired by a news story that Gabriel had read several years previously about the territorial battles by two rival gangs in the East End of London that would fight in Epping Forest.[14] He placed an advertisement in The Times and looked through library archives in attempt to find more about the story, but was unable to find any further information, so he created his own fictional characters, including "Liquid Len", "Harold Demure" and "The Bethnal Green Butcher".[14][34] Upon hearing a rehearsal take of the song in July 1973, reporter Chris Welch wrote: "'The 'Battle' has a catchy march theme with typical Genesis drum and bass lines, clean and precise".[14] The lyrics have since been praised for their humour and wit, but they did not gel well with the music, which the band subsequently felt was complicated for the sake of being so.[34] Gabriel thought its ending, which had each gang settling the issue over the toss of a coin, tied up the story well but is too much of an anti-climax.[22] (1) Epping is on the outskirts of London. East-End is the most London-typical residential zone in London, where tradition is beloved. (2) Bar means either rod or front/rear bumper. And so, with cars and superscars, we get another pun, standing for butchery tools. (3) Barking is a suburb, residential area. (4) Billy is a calling name from Willy and William; hence, Willy Wright, William Wright, and Billy are just the same person. (5) Chest in English means either breast, or a huge wooden box. In our case, it means breast, whereas, on the contrary, The Reverend looks for a piece of furniture. (6) Staffordshire Plate: slang expression for sexual perversion (oral sex). Another pun for The Reverend, who might be really interested in a plate from the county of Stafford. (7) Robbing Hood: Do not be confused by Robin Hood. Only translate to masqued thief. (8) Karmacanic: The n-th double meaning – “karma” and “mechanic”. Sort of religious mechanism in the n-th of the puns so dear to Peter Gabriel and to Genesis. (9) Bethnal Green: residential area in London. (10) Silver Cloud and Rolls are, naturally, the Rolls Royce cars. Please note how Rolls joins Roy …”who doles out a lot”. This is a very interesting link to read, if the lyric and history of this song interests you - Hiding Under Covers This is essentially a history of Epping Forest for those interested The history of Epping Forest - City of London -------------------------------------- Well here we have a song that seems to cause some division. Masterpiece or overly wordy, overly complicated filler seem to be the two angles. I used to probably sit closer to group two, but I am firmly in the masterpiece camp now. This track starts with a little march, the volume slowly raising to lead us into the body of the track. We have drumming and stamping and a flute leading the march. The volume fades away and then we're hit with Peter starting the lyrics and the band directly in the fray. The song comes at us with a quick tempo. It may be wordy, but I think Gabriel's phrasing holds it together really well. I could actually see a considerably edited version of this being a hit because the chorus is great. I love the way Gabriel slides through characters voices also. We get a short keyboard break, we have key modulations and changes that are rapid fire. I mean this is a real technical masterpiece if nothing else. The first substantial musical change comes in at 5:15 and it works as a segue into the unfortunate Reverend's tale. To me the music during this section is sensational also. It has a wonderful 6 beat feel which always has a great swaying, dancing feeling to me. (for some reason this is bringing Godley and Creme and Peter Cook on Consequences to mind this morning ... but anyhow) This section resolves itself back into the chorus at 7:47 and we are lead back into the fight going on. Look this may be complicated, and it may be wordy, but I reckon it is totally entertaining from start to finish. I find that for a song that is so long and generally fast paced, it is incredibly engaging. The story is somewhat bizarre, but I think that's why it appealed to Gabriel (who shows fine vocal dexterity on here, with the character voices and some fine singing) At 10:45 Hackett gets a lead break, and at 11:15, just before the end really smashes out some fancy fretting. This song has gone from a weird novelty to one of Genesis' top songs, in my world, over the last couple of weeks. Great stuff.
The Battle of Epping Forest I often see people saying that this is one of the worst songs Genesis put out during their classic lineup, but I’ve never thought that. It’s a bit campier than a lot of their other work, but I don’t think it’s to the song’s detriment. The voices Peter Gabriel does throughout the track may be a bit much (I personally like them), and it may not be quite as great as this album’s other three long tracks, but it’s still a solid and enjoyable Genesis song. I like it for all the usual reasons, plus the increased theatricality.
^^ Someone on Wikipedia thought that an explanation was required for the word "Billy"? That's probably my favourite couplet from the song. Actually I seem to recall reading that there was an actual shady character called Liquid Len, or a name very similar.
Definitely. I think it has grown to be my favourite on the album to be honest, and Gabriel's vocal madness is part of the appeal
lots of folks from all over the world reading here, and I just thought that it wouldn't hurt to put that in ... it isn't actually from wiki lol ... there are quite a few Epping references out there
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I loved this song when I first heard the album. Nowadays, I find it OK but it is not one of the songs I look forward to when playing the album. My current feelings: 1. Gabriel's vocal is too busy -- he changed this approach radically in his solo years and usually gives the music all the necessary breathing space 2. The keyboard hooks get repetitive -- Banks keyboards are usually very structured and this works well against the looser feel of Gabriel's vocals and Collins' drumming (kind of a Genesis signature sound) but, in this particular case, the trick doesn't work so well and my guess is a jazzier, less structured approach to the keyboards might have worked better; 3. None of the two mentioned points would matter that much if the song weren't so long 4. The Reverend section is still great
This might be the very fist Genesis song I heard. For a while, it was "picnic" in my mind, the sort of hook I could remember. It's weird in their catalogue. News references instead of literary ones, a structure than might be overly complicated, etc. I feel that the narrative keeps it together, but just by a little margin. I don't think the ani-climatic ending is a bad thing, on the contrary it's quite ironic. The counterpointal quality of the whole album's writing is still present. Especially Hackett's embellishments or fills (how would you call them?) that answer Pete's singing. This is again a true band's effort, classically shaped. I agree with Mike about the revered part: it's musically delightful, uplifting, feel good stuff In the end, it's not a perfectly cohesive piece, musically, but if yo follow the story that goes in the background and the ridde is pretty enjoyable.
Depending on the day, this is my favorite track from the album. Seems to be cut from the same cloth as "Harold The Barrel" and "Get 'em Out By Friday". Gabriel's vocals on this are quite funny at times. I especially like the 'Reverend' section. Lots of people think this is too wordy. Not me.
The Battle Of Epping Forest Undoubtedly, it's a uniquely constructed song, where the band got a stunning effect with their creative intercalation of beautiful variations on the melodic lines throughout the song, and all tinged with very beautiful and effective subtleties as well as some clever tempo variations. No wonder that all these aspects altogether convey such an emotionally unique experience, so it's indeed a great track. P.S.: I admit though that at times, at some points, this track indeed distracts me a bit... Even if this time I can hear Peter delivering some enjoyable moments it will depend on my mood at all for fully listening to this song. It's like I stated earlier about my personal tastes: when Gabriel-era Genesis is concerned, several times his narrative speechlike singing drags a bit, especially on their following album The Lamb.
In the end, it's what defines the song. All those packed puns and wordplay. One might like it or not, but it couldn't be different from what it is.
I love that chorus build with Tony starting the Pro Soloist lead and then Peter following it with the proper vocal. It always sounds so good... And the lyrics get super in depth but how can you not like "Just like any picnic... PICNIC" Oh, and Mike kills it here. Probably my favorite thing he did on the record.
My sister-in-law used to live near Epping Forest (postcode E(ast)17...), I went there one day in the summer of 2004 after seeing Brian Wilson doing SMiLE in concert, as soon as I got there I was thinking of this song! I was always a bit lukewarm to this song until I saw the tribute band The Musical Box playing it live - and it was really awesome and intricate and then I thought 'That's a fun song', certainly one of their more archetypical 'prog' songs.
I've never agreed with the criticisms of this song as "too wordy" or "too excessive." IveI always loved it, though I understand why the band might have been dismayed by Gabriel's growing ambitions to embellish "their" music.
