Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. MicSmith

    MicSmith Forum Resident

    Selling England was the second Genesis album I heard, after Genesis Live. This would be around March/April 1974 just before IKWIL took off as a single.

    The album was easy to like and with repeated playing it simply got better and better.

    My favourite tracks are Dancing With the Moonlit Knight, Firth of Fifth and Cinema Show. Those three tracks pretty much sum up what is great about this band.

    The first copy belonged to my brother so when he left home in 1978 I had to replace it which I did with a Canadian copy in the Summer of ‘79.

    I later bought the EMI 100 edition in 1997 in a gatefold sleeve that EMI thought was how it came out. I’ve since bought a picdisc version of the dreadful remix.

    Love the simplified artwork, love the Englishness of it all. But most of all I love it for its inventiveness, skilful playing, lyrical imagery and its length. One of the greatest prog rock albums of all time. Just a thoroughly brilliant listen.
     
  2. Scott Sheagren

    Scott Sheagren I’m a Metal,Rock,Jazz Fusion,Gaga type of guy.

    Location:
    06790
    i have all the 1994 Genesis remasters and they sound great.at the moment i love wind and wuthering.
     
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  3. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    This is an interesting listen ...
    An instrumental outtake of Epping Forest
     
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  4. Victor/Victrola

    Victor/Victrola Makng shure its write

    After The Ordeal is a wonderful track, and I'm glad it's on the record. Those chord changes in the first part of the electric half are really great and unexpected.
     
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  5. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

  6. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

  7. Scott Sheagren

    Scott Sheagren I’m a Metal,Rock,Jazz Fusion,Gaga type of guy.

    Location:
    06790
    Is it true though that the 1994 remasters have noise reduction?
     
  8. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    idk mate, out of my ball park that one. Someone will know though
     
  9. MisterSquishy

    MisterSquishy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    After the Ordeal works fine as an interlude between the other epic tracks. But it's clear this was rushed & not well supported. The piano is a bit sloppy, & the electric guitar tuning goes wide on the sustained notes. Still, it adds much to the surreal baroque atmosphere. The melodic/harmonic content works well with the themes of the album.

    The pacing of the album also makes sense. Each giant challenging track is followed by a smaller & easier to digest track. It's like the Village Green concept as interpreted by a whole different breed of schoolboys. How do you fight off the nonsense of those who argue it's too pretentious to even give a true listen?
     
  10. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Clearly we come from different places. I'm just not that interested in hearing rehearsal recordings that, as you say, were never meant for anyone's ears other than their own. I was just giving my impression of how that clip sounded to me, that's all.
     
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  11. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    I'd be curious to know those tapes' history.
    Who made'em/kept them (Tony?), how did they leak, how many hands they passed through, etc.
     
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  12. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    True as you have 5 fingers per hand.
    Worse in Trespass, lessening up until Abacab. Foxtrot has even some hi-hats strokes in Watcher disappeared!
     
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  13. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Incidentally, I'm not interested anymore in sitting down for hours listening to rehearsals or early versions...
    That said, those recordings once more remind us of how a true professional creating process works.
    The end result might sound smooth and natural but there's a lot of trial and error and remaking behind it.
     
  14. Odysseus

    Odysseus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Phil Collins stated in the Together and Apart documentary that he was always the keeper of the tapes.
     
  15. dajokr

    dajokr Classical "Mega" Box Set Collector

    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Listening to a new vinyl copy of Selling that arrived today. Copyright is 2018 and its from the EU - sounds really good to me. The Battle of Epping Forest sounds like it is indeed right outside my door. :)
     
  16. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    In various degrees, yes.
     
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  17. I’ve always felt that SEBTP is a good representation of an actualized version of Gabriel era Genesis. Everyone plays well on the record, and PG was in full on character mode with his post Foxtrot repertoire expanding. The album feels like a complete statement even if a few bits here and there aren’t that strong on their own.
    The run from Foxtrot to Lamb is spectacular.

    Dancing with the Moonlight Knight is an amazing collage of Englishness, especially to me as an American. I’m sure there is a level to the lyric that I still don’t quite understand, but the fact Gabriel and Co. took on the ‘ English Character’ as a song subject is impressive to me.

    I know What I like- I’ve always enjoyed this tune. Phil lays down a subtle but sweet groove and Hackett’s sitar lines are a hook for me.
    I had a T-shirt Made once that said ‘There’s a future for you in the fire escape trade’
    What a great line, even out of context.
     
  18. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Cinema Show/Aisle Of Plenty
    "The Cinema Show" is divided into two sections. The first section is a 12-string guitar-based piece, featuring vocal harmonies between Gabriel and Collins, as well as a short flute and oboe solo. The song concludes with a four-and-a-half-minute keyboard solo on the ARP Pro Soloist,[a] with Rutherford and Collins playing a rhythm in a 7
    8 time signature.[38][39] The lyrics, written by Banks and Rutherford, draw much of their inspiration from the T. S. Eliot poem The Waste Land.[39][27]

    The album closes with a segue from the end of "The Cinema Show" into "Aisle of Plenty", a reprise of "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight" which gives the album a book-end effect. The track uses word play such as "Easy, love there's the safe way home" and "Thankful for her fine fair discount, Tess co-operates", referring to British supermarkets.[3]

    ----------------------------------------------------
    This track has a very pretty and romantic start, with a modern day Juliet preparing herself for a date. We meet Romeo, that his box of chocolates, he feels he can get Juliet to submit to his wishes. It's an interesting little microcosm of dating and romance.
    The music is made up of twelve string guitars, in a similar way to some of the bands earlier works. The chord voicings give the tune a very interesting sound, an almost melancholy amongst the romance.
    The tone changes for the Father Tiresias section, and we move through an instrumental section and reprise the Father Tiresias section.
    We move from Father Tiresias into an instrumental section which essentially becomes an extended instrumental coda of sorts. This section is full of really good melodic synth and keyboard. Some of Banks most memorable stuff of the keys. This section, to the best of my knowledge has very often been brought out in live shows as a part of the medleys the band became known for, in trying to make sure they were representing their catalog on stage. Genesis being a band that has always played a good selection of songs from the album they are touring.
    Aisle Of Plenty works as an ending for cinema show and a reprise of the album, and an end of the album and it is very effective in its construct. The way the Moonlit Knight melody flows out of the fading synths and into the melody is quite superb.
    Another very satisfying album from Genesis.
     
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  19. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    I don't know where to start with Cinema Show, so I think I'll go random.

    First.
    Never underestimate the power of sweet songs.
    We were teens, in a garden, around the table. Playing cards or whatever. Summer. Portable mini speakers, Genesis on the walkman (courtesy of my insistence).
    A girl was a temporary member of the group.
    She played and listened through, unimpressed. She was quite nice, I'd admit. She never dismissed the music but she simply stated she didn't like it.
    Then Cinema started and she lightened up immediately. "THIS, I like!". She probably didn't know any english at all by the time, not enought to decode a song in real time anyway, same as the majority of us; so it was all about the tender arpeggios, the melody and the vocal delivery.

    Second.
    To me the song was mainly about the instrumental section. I liked the first part but as an appetizer mostly, the rollercoaster being the main dish. Not really impressed by the tale of simple everyday Romeos and Juliets going to the movies. Safe, later on, for the Tiresias part: "Once a man, like the sea I raged. Once a woman, like the Earth I gave. And There is in fact more earth than sea". I don't know if it was true wisdom or just pretense of wisdom (more likely, theatrical representation of wisdom) but it always struck me deeply.

    Third.
    But let's talk about that instrumental part.
    For a long time I considered it disconnected from the song and the narrative, and even the 76' live footage did not give me a clue, but in fact the connection is still there: the music is supposed to hint at the movie show itself, action, emotion, that stuff. The rhythm is relentless, as is the flowing of the film into the projector. Not necessary to see it this way, but it provides unity to 2 otherwise completely cut off sections (no obvious themes reprised, totally different feel, etc.).
    "Part II" is in itself a relentless rollercoaster where different sections alternate with little or no connection to each other (one can still identify a loose ABAB structure though, it's not obviously random), but unified by the constant rhythmic background that makes everything experienced like a musical voyage and keeps pushing forward. The climax (the most memorable melodic section) comes mid-road even if a later section acts as a variated reprise and brings to the conclusion.
    It's almost like the equivalent of comic strips narrative in music, yet the rhythm keeps everything together.
    Same approach used in Musical Box's breaks, before, and in Duke's Travels or Second Home By The Sea later, even though in both cases the climax builds up slowly and reaches its peak in the end.

    Four.
    Cinema could be the testament to Genesis' artistry. We already got Dancing, IKWIL, Firth, (ok, Moore Fool Me), Epping, Ordeal... and that would be enough for a full album. And just when you think it can't get any better than that, it does. One maybe needs to take a step behind to realize that kind of achievement.
    The circular closing is just the icing on the cake. Classical, classic, classy.

    Five.
    The major oddity about "Part II". There's no Steve at all. It's a full trio composition and obviously it's so packed up by itself that there's no space for Steve's trademarked embellishments.

    :cheers:
     
  20. mx20

    mx20 Enthusiast

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    My favorite Genesis recording & Genesis song, bar none. The keyboard melodies alone in the instrumental section (and that moment near the very end when Mike switches to bass guitar!) convey so much sweetness & excitement, even after all these years.... A masterpiece.
     
  21. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Aisle Of Plenty is one of the best endings of an album ever made.
     
  22. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    For those who wants the real deal and not some remastered no noised or remixed let down, here you have the album in all it's original glory:
     
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  23. Victor/Victrola

    Victor/Victrola Makng shure its write

    Cinema Show demonstrates what a great job Genesis could do as a band. There's so much going on in this song but it doesn't come off as a showcase for any individual, a bit unlike Firth, of which Hackett's solo is a definite highlight. Yeah, Tony gets a big solo later on (more on that in a bit) but it's not nearly as powerful as Steve's solo in Firth.

    Are we sure that the lyrics are by Banks and Rutherford? That line "once a man, like the sea I raged, once a woman, like the earth I gave, and there is in fact more Earth than sea" sure sounds like something Gabriel would come up with. I always assumed that Gabriel was responsible for the majority of the lyrics for these early albums; that may be an incorrect assumption, I don't really know the group's dynamic when it came to song composition.

    I want to point out the solo part that starts at about the 7:00 mark. Some people criticize the band for working parts of this into a medley during live shows, but I really enjoyed it. I can't see a mid-80's Genesis audience that paid to see them do Abacab really have a lot of interest in an 11 minute version of Cinema Show*, but stick that instrumental part into a medley and you have something that entertains the new fans while giving the classic fans something to chew on. (This is from an American's point of view, so the Europeans on this thread may very well disagree since the cultures are very different.) Also, in the live version of this solo, it's a drum duo between Phil and Chester which is a definite concert highlight.

    *I saw a tour in the early 80's where they played "Supper's Ready" in it's entirety, and it became a bathroom break/intermission for about 1/3 of the audience. I was so ashamed of my fellow concert-goers.

    Thank you Windmill, for the idea that the long instrumental part being "the movie" the couple went to see on their date. That never occurred to me before, but it makes perfect sense.
     
  24. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Yes indeed, thanks @The_Windmill ... I hadn't considered that either, but it makes perfect sense
     
  25. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    It's reasonable Tony tome. I would expect Pete to be even wittier.



    All those years of overthinking finally payed off.
     
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