Gentle Giant

thanks for the replies. guess i will just have to try and hunt down the second pressing. Its really annoying.

 

Hmm, I always thought that was an intentional "mistake".(?)
Well, I like it anyhow. Details like that can add character, and does in this case, IMO.
Each to his own.

(I have the German Vertigo "swirl", btw, and I like it a lot.)

 

My understanding is that most vinyl copies actually had that "upsweep" on the first Moog note of "Acquiring the Taste". I think it might only be the original UK "swirl" pressing that has the straight start, though I'm sure there might be others.

Certainly, my old US LP with the black-bordered spaceship label had the upsweep, and I believe it was much more common among the various pressings in any case. Since I grew up with it that way, it's "right" to me. Possibly a tape-operator error on a later mastering that was for some reason not caught, and allowed to perpetuate from that point on. That's my guess anyway.

 

This is what you all have:

www.eroc.de/downloads/GG_false.mp3

And this is what you all like to have:

www.eroc.de/downloads/GG_corr.mp3

Right...???


- Eroc

 

I have an early pressing of the UK spaceship label that is without the upsweep. Anyway the new cd sounds great apart from that

 

These problems occur because record-labels NEVER let the original mastertape go out for sublicensed pressings abroad. There are always copies made for that purpose. And in case of GG back then these were tape-copies. A so called upsweep (or downsweep) can be the result when the engineer starts the 2nd recorder too late or has too less leader-tape before the magnetic tape reaches the head.

Normally machines like Studer, Telefunken, Scully, Otari, Ampex and how they're all called have absolutely no up- or downspeed problems when the tape is started. But if there was a technical failure causing the capstan to "pause" and wind up when the start-button for the tape was pushed, the tape would take 3 to 5 seconds before reaching correct speed. If the 1st machine with the o-tape has starts correctly, the upsweeping 2nd machine and so the copy-tape will deliver a downsweep. If the 1st machine has this problem the result will be an upsweep.

Now you may ask why such things can happen. You really can't imagine what kind of crap can happen during recording sessions and in the chain to the final record. Normally copying tapes is a job for the apprentice but not for the senior engineer. And in many cases they even don't listen to what they're doing. For e.g. copying their archives many record companies often use housewifes or students. And who knows what kind of afterdrunk youngster was forced early in the morning to just do an urgent copy from GG "Acquiring The Taste" back then? Maybe he hasn't even listened to it. And maybe others after him at the vinyl-cut had listened but thought it should be that way? The music of GG is a little bit complicated and outstanding and we can't expect from everybody to know precisely a MOOG Synth and all it's sounds...


- Eroc

 

Thanks, Eroc.

I had a feeling it was something along these lines which you described, but it's nice to have more details about the various possibilities.

 

Just trying to find the most appropriate and recent thread to post this in.

Recently a forum member sold me a copy of the Japanese Octopus SACD, suggesting it was the best digital version he had heard. After listening to it - twice in a row - I will easily say that ANY GG FAN HERE who has the ability to play SACDs or expects to in the future should own this release.

I know this is often cited as a favorite album by the fans, but it was never one of mine. Perhaps this is because I had heard most of the tracks live too many times, or it could be because the sound of the Columbia CD I had was just weak. In any case, I was floored when I listened to the recent SACD. Amazingly warm sound, very reminiscent of the true revelation I experienced when I first heard the UK LP of In a Glass House after being used to the RGOF CD for many years. "The Boys in the Band" especially felt like I was listening to the original master tape. I honestly don't think that album could sound any better than this. This disc is very, very crankable!

This has got to be one of my personal favorite hi-res releases. It's just a shame it's not likely that several of their other LPs won't make it to this format with such treatment.

 

Totally agree.

 

Absolutely! I love this release. Here's what I posted a few weeks ago in one of the SHM-SACD threads:

I had previously only owned the US Columbia CD. I was floored to hear the low resonance of the orchestral bass drum ring throughout the verses of Raconteur Troubadour - something that was non-exsistent on my old CD. That's just one example of the many nuances that come to life on this release.

 

Has anyone had a chance to compare the Octopus SACD to the Edge of Twilight comp? I have that comp and it has been praised here for its sound, so wondering how the SACD compares.

Also, does anyone know if the tracks from Edge of Twilight are taken from the recent remasters?

 

The tracks from Edge Of Twilight are a distinct unique remaster IIRC.

The SACD sounds much better, more analog, palpable, effortless...

 

I also have the Edge of Twilight compilation and just did a quick comparison. I agree the SACD is better. EoT is brighter. This is quite evident on the hi-hat and tambourine. They sound more natural on the SACD.

Yes I do believe EoT was a unique mastering. I had thought (and still do think) that it sounds pretty good. But the SACD shows there was room for improvement.

Eric

 

Same here.

 

Thanks for the comparisons. I'll probably stick with the comp for now, but good to know about the SACD.

 

So the Japanese mini of "Three Friends" was taken from the US Columbia cd, then brickwalled? But the Japanese mini of "Octopus" was taken from the West German Line cd and run flat?

Is that right? Seems so strange if true. Why would they not just use the Line cd for "Three Friends" as well? And then why jack-up one but not the other?

 

Because they want to earn bucks but don't seem to have things like THAT at hands...


(And here I wanted to show you a nice picture. But since it seems to be not possible any more to post simple pictures in this forum, you never will see it)

 

Jeff's not a member here anymore unfortunately, so he can't answer for himself. But here's my supposition. Source wise, I bet they used whatever they had at hand. What's strange to me is that since these were done by Universal, you'd think they wouldn't have to resort to that. Surely they could have gotten a better source from Universal UK at least? But who knows.

Mastering wise, I think it was mainly because of the time line of those mini-LP releases. When Three Friends came out in '06, the trend of fu¢^%ng with the audio was in full swing, but not so much yet in '00 (at least, not yet for the Japanese mini-LPs), which is when Octopus was issued. Remember that many of those earlier minis sounded good. So regardless of the source used for the masterings, I suspect it was more to do with industry mastering norms in place at the time of release.

You can still upload it to a picture hosting site and then insert the link here. Then it will show up!

For example:




And I bet even this Taiwanese pirate sounds better than the Japanese mini-LP.

 

Thank for the advice. What I wanted to say: those people don't have treasures like that in their archives...

Put the picture on my server. Typed in the URL, but it doesn't work at all.

It's a shot from an analog master-tape I have in my vaults, which is a 1:1 studio-copy from the original tape used for the "Octopus" vinyl-cutting back then.

 

Here's Eroc's picture: