George/Paul dust-up during the Get Back sessions

I'm guessing most high school rock band bass players can read music, so they wouldn't want McCartney on bass either. Good thing he had other options!

 

I think everyone cut MLH some slack except one person:

"I saw the final cut of that 'Let It Be' film with those hairy performers who call themselves 'The Beatles'... No further evidence is needed -- Michael Lindsay-Hogg is surely not my son." -- Orson Welles*










*Legal disclaimer -- For entertainment purposes only. He really didn't say this.

 

I’m a big Paul McCartney fan. But, I’m not going to call him a great drummer because he just isn’t. The ability to play syncopated beats on the cymbals and bass drum are really basic drumming skills.

The only shuffle track I am aware of that Paul played drums on (?) is “Helen Wheels”, and it’s kind of a mess, with a double tracked ride cymbal (or maybe he’s using two hands on two, it’s so cluttered it’s hard to tell) playing all over the drum part from start to finish. Compare that to the tight drumming on “Hi Hi Hi”, which I think is Denny Seiwell.

Anyway, I think that I am being viewed as a “hater” for being obstinate on this topic so I’ll stop. I’ve been a fan since the age of 4, was a fairly serious collector and even met him in the 90’s through the good graces of my firm. I’ve seen him at least once a year for the last few years because I always fear it’ll be the last chance. And, since he refuses to stop, I’ll fly 15 hours (one way) to Vienna to see him in December because I somehow managed to get a third row center seat. Hope the new album is great.

 

I'm with you on this. He Is Not A Drummer. He was just able to play the drums in a fashion when it suited his circumstances in the studio. I say this as a lifelong lover of McCartney and all things Beatles and Wings etc...and someone who also loves the big drum track at the end of the McCartney album Kreen Akrore

 

And if you were a bass guitarist who only used one finger of your right hand nobody would touch you with a ten foot pole, right? That’s why none of us have heard of James Jameson, LOL.

In all seriousness, I know - personally - a drummer who not only played on multiple number ones over the last 15 years, but is thought of - by musicians and drummers alike - as being a fantastic player. And guess what: he’s unable to play a shuffle. So this obsessive with the shuffle that you have is just that. Let it go.

 

Exactly what the Stones did on the 82 tour - two players who switched off.

 

Someone who is "able to play the drums in a fashion" that's competent and keeps the beat IS a drummer. He may not be a great drummer. He may be a technically deficient drummer. His playing may seem amateurish in some ways. But he plays the drums, so he's a drummer. And since he plays the drums on a half-dozen hit singles, he's clearly a professional drummer.

 

The whole thing about Paul and Ringo not doing anything about the Yoko situation reminds me of something I've always wondered, and yes I'm aware I'm putting on the arm-chair psychologist hat here. Is it possible part of the reason George had such resentment for Paul at that time was because instead of backing him up, Paul allowed it to happen? So George felt Paul was choosing/accommodating John regardless of how it impacted George, and was always going to prioritise his partnership with John over the group as a whole? When I've listened to the Get Back sessions I've gotten the impression he was bothered by Paul's lack of action.

 

I have wondered about this also. I am re-reading 'You Never Give Me Your Money', and the author mentioned that Neil suggested that he would tell Yoko to shut up if it were him, and then he points out that when that opportunity arose, Neil never actually did so.

I think it must have been so frustrating for George, especially because Paul agreed with him. It seems that Paul was wary of pushing John away, which meant he was more secretive with his criticism (the rude letter he left about Yoko on the mantelpiece for instance), whereas at times George was more willing to be upfront. At the same time, George was just as disinterested in the entire sessions as John in many ways, and didn't really answer Paul properly when Paul kept on asking in different ways why the others bothered turning up if they didn't want to go on as a group.

After Derek Taylor 'appealed to George's human decency' things changed a lot for the better of course, with the move to Savile Row and the introduction of Billy Preston, and George's quitting after his argument with John did finally push Paul into opening up about Yoko causing extreme tensions, to Ringo and Neil at least (it is frustrating in hindsight that George wasn't there to hear that discussion).

What is all so frustrating, is that Yoko wouldn't have broken up the group on her own, especially with room for solo releases for their joint work, as long as John didn't try and insist on it being released under the Beatles banner, but then the second things improve with the situation after the move to Apple, Klein shows up. The book mentions George trying to phone Paul to discuss whether George should sign the final management document with Klein and to give Paul head's up that it was happening, and it is so frustrating that as a result of the early 'Get Back' tensions between them, Paul had changed number and not given the new one to George.

On a different note, one bit of information that I feels highlights how frustrating the year from 1968 to 1969 was for anyone who is saddened by their demise, is the information that Magic Alex created a device that a large company were willing to pay a over a million pounds (I believe) for the rights to, and yet the group didn't accept the offer because they believed that it was worth more than that once in production. That shows in microcosm that luck was not with them by this point.

 

That's right! I had forgotten that Stew actually appeared on stage on that tour, along with Ian Mac. I guess that would be one solution, but only the wealthiest bands can afford that type of solution! The Jamerson analogy is inapt - he may have played using his thumb, but that didn't leave him unable to play certain genres - he simply used a different technique to achieve the same result, much like a drummer who uses the jazz grip instead of the matched grip. Incidentally, unless I'm remembering incorrectly, George uses his thumb on "Two of Us".

 

That might be true, and it makes it all the more ironic that George seems perfectly comfortable with Yoko on the Imagine sessions. I remember being surprised when I first saw the clip of her sitting at George's knee while he tried out a steel guitar part on "Oh My Love".

 

Paul was pretty clearly worried that openly complaining to John about Yoko would be interpreted by John as an ultimatum to choose, and that he would choose Yoko. If I recall correctly, I think this is recounted in Sulpy's book.

 

What device did Magic Alex create that was so valuable?
I do recall reading a long, long time ago that he said that he was working on a "tape recorder with no moving parts". I've since looked everywhere for that quote/story, but have never been able to find it. Of course back then I (and everyone else) thought it was silly, how could you record sound with no moving parts? And now we have computers and iPods and iPads and flashdrives...so it really came true. Whether Magic Alex really had the kernal of an idea, or if he was just blowing smoke....who knows.

 

He also claimed to have created a device which would be like an electronic signature that would stop home recording off of the radio from working to help stop bootlegs. I think this was what they received the huge offer for. Again, I have no idea if his idea worked or not.

 

It's weird, isn't it? At the beginning every little thing which had to go right in order for them to be successful did, and at the end it was the opposite.

It always bothered me that George wasn't present for that conversation too, and also that he didn't hear Paul defend him after he leaves while John tries to deflect blame. On paper it seemed clear to me that Paul and George should've been allies, but perhaps over the last few years they'd become too distant to naturally confide in each other. Thank you for mentioning that bit about attempting to phone Paul. I'd completely forgotten about it. He also tells Allan Steckler that he doesn't want to re-sign with Klein because it would mean The Beatles would never be able to reunite with Paul. In Chris O'Dell's book, she indicates George didn't approve of the way Klein ran Apple. These things suggest to me that George wasn't as gun-ho about following John against Paul as is made out. Going by the outburst he had at John in 1974, I think he assumed if he did John this favour, John would appreciate it and support him later. Same with a lot of times he sided with John. I'm not sure what Paul could've done, but I genuinely believe swaying George to his point of view wasn't totally out of the question if he'd given him his number. Very frustrating.

 

Ringo is a drummer, Jim Keltner is a drummer, even Pete Best was a drummer. McCartney is not a drummer. Mick Jagger is not a guitar player.
It's a spiritual thing. A relationship if you like

 

Like hell they're not No, McCartney's no Ringo or Keltner on the skins, but again, guys like Keith Moon liked his drumming. Paul has his own style of drumming- one listen to McCartney II will show you what Paul can do on the skins, he's very creative...what he may lack in technique he more than makes up for with enthusiasm. And Mick's not too shabby on guitar- that's him playing rhythm on "Sway" (the guitar that starts the song) and the acoustic guitar on "Moonlight Mile" for example. Jagger can do a mean Keith Richards impersonation when he wants to on rhythm guitar, and, having said that, I'd be brazen to say that Mick is a better guitar player than Keith is these days.

 

Spoken like a true multi=instumentalist

 

To be fair, my drumming abilities are probably on par with McCartney's I haven't played an actual drum kit in years, mind you, it's all drum loops/samples or playing a drum machine manually on my music these days.

 

Can you play a shuffle.

 

...said Paul McCartney
Do we have an actual quote from Moonie ?

 

I believe that the story was told by Linda. Moon called Paul/Linda on the phone after hearing the Band On The Run album (or song?). He liked the drummer on it and asked them who was playing drums. But I do not think there is any direct quote from Moon.

 

Like I said, man, I haven't played an actual kit in at least fifteen yearsI don't think I've ever attempted to play a shuffle on a drum set (had no reason to given the music we were playing at the time) so I really couldn't tell ya, one way or another....

 

That is a very good way of putting it! Unfortunately it rings so true as a description of their split.

Yes, had George heard that conversation, or been able to get through to Paul, let alone both, the outcome with Klein may have been very different, and it is such a shame that he didn't. I wonder if George ever heard the tapes of Paul defending him, even years later ?

I do definitely think George felt extremely let down by John by the mid-70's, and I can see why.

 

Good old Linda